Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 13th, 2016

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'll pass that on to Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for being here with us today.

Bill C-33 is great legislation. I've been long awaiting for these changes to take place, but I think, as Mr. Christopherson said, that the upset was the timing of the legislation, not so much the content of the legislation.

I'm very much in favour of the content of this legislation. I just want to hear from you why you felt it was important to put forward this legislation and to reverse those portions of the Fair Elections Act at this time. What was the thinking of the government, or the ministry, behind that?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

These are really important changes that need to be made. They're changes that we campaigned on, frankly. They're changes that are outlined in my mandate letter. They're changes that we heard from Canadians over the past year. But they're just the beginning. A great deal of work needs to continue to be done. More legislation needs to be introduced. Although the system that we have, the democratic institutions we have now are good and they're serving us well, we have many areas of improvement that need to be worked on, and there's a legislative agenda to be mindful of. Given that we have so many thoughtful recommendations from the Chief Electoral Officer that require further thinking, for us these were the more straightforward changes that we knew would have an immediate impact.

This is just the beginning, and the rest of the work moving forward requires more digging and more research. I think that's where this committee's work is going to be essential.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

You only have 10 seconds.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

I just want to say thank you.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Ruby.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

We'll move to Mr. Reid for five minutes.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I hope to be splitting my time with Mr. Schmale, depending on the minister's answer.

Minister, this evening there will be a vote on concurrence in the second report of the electoral reform committee, which asks you to include on the MyDemocracy.ca website the same questions that were on the committee's questionnaire. These include specific questions that deal with what people think about individual kinds of electoral systems. There's also a question relating to whether people feel that a referendum would be an appropriate way of dealing with this issue once the government has come forward with its proposed legislation, so that Canadians get the final say on whether or not to switch to a new system.

My question is this: How will Liberal members be voting? Could you provide us with the reasons they will be voting the way they will be voting?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Chair, I can't speak for all Liberal members, but I want to acknowledge—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Is it a free vote then?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm not sure. I want to acknowledge that the issue of a referendum is referenced in the report of the electoral reform committee, and the government will be responding to that particular question.

As far as MyDemocracy.ca goes, we're asking questions. We worked with political scientists who have various preferences themselves. We were asking questions based on the values that make up our democratic institutions, and we're asking Canadians to engage in this conversation in a new way.

Canadians are engaging. This is a more inclusive and accessible way for them to have this conversation with us. Again, as your motion earlier allowed, Mr. Reid, I'll be coming back to this committee to talk further about electoral reform and MyDemocracy.ca. I'm happy to get into greater detail then.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

I had the opportunity, Minister, to speak with one of the academic experts. That individual advised me that, in fact, the kinds of questions they were permitted to put forward were constrained by the government and did not include questions on specific electoral systems. In fact, the suggestion that the experts made the decision to not include questions on individual electoral systems, which you have said in the House of Commons, is, in fact, not merely misleading, but it is literally the opposite of the truth. In fact, you and your officials were the ones who made the decision to restrict the subject matter and to exclude specific electoral systems from MyDemocracy.ca. That was done at the very beginning so they never had the option of bringing them forward.

Is that not true?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to take this opportunity to thank the academic advisory panel that has been working with us in collaboration to make sure there is science behind our approach. I'm really proud of the work we've been able to do with them.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

With regard to the question, Minister, did you and your staff, in fact, restrict the range of questions that could be put on MyDemocracy.ca so that the academic experts from the very beginning were not able to put forward anything regarding individual questions?

You can answer any way you want, but a yes or a no has to occur here.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

We've been working in collaboration with them, and we've been asking the questions that are really important to ask, Mr. Reid.

If you would like to talk in greater detail about the process and the technicalities around MyDemocracy.ca, we have at least 120 minutes to do that in the near future. Today, I think—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

We do, but the question I'm asking you today is did the academic experts make the decision on their own to exclude questions about specific electoral systems and about whether or not there should be a referendum on legislation, or were those questions, in fact, excluded by you and your bureaucrats in the nature of the survey, the umbrella of permissible questions they were then asked to design? Yes or no, please.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Working in collaboration means different people get together and everyone has an opportunity to provide their feedback. Working in collaboration with political scientists on this particular project, Mr. Reid, has been about making sure the questions we're asking are as accessible as possible.

There are Canadians who have a very easy time being able to have a conversation about the technicalities of the different systems, but we know that's not the case for most Canadians. We know many Canadians don't even know where to begin being part of the conversation on their electoral reform. That's the reason we chose the approach we took. Based on the evidence that exists out there and best practices, asking values-based questions, and about the impact of different systems on the way Canadians are governed is a more inclusive and a more accessible way, and I'm quite proud of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Petitpas Taylor.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I have two very quick questions because I know we're running out of time.

To follow up on Mr. Christopherson's and Ms. Sahota's comments, what steps could we take to avoid this type of situation again?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm very much looking forward to your report. I think having conversations...come talk to me, and I'm happy to come and talk to you. I know as a government we committed to restoring the independence of committees, and I know that's been a really important measure towards a healthier democracy, but this relationship is an important one for me. Whatever it takes to make sure we work better together, I'm open to it.

Given that there are people who have been doing this work for more than a decade, I'm open to that feedback. Let's make sure we continue to work the same way you folks have been able to, which is this is not about the parties we represent; this is about what's in the best interests of Canadians and how we can improve democracy. I'm very much interested in that. So let's talk.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Do I have anymore time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Yes, three and a half minutes.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Okay.

Are you satisfied with the process with regard to Bill C-33 and if not, what would you do differently?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Recognizing the passion that I've heard from some of my colleagues here today, I'm mindful that things could be done better and things could be done differently. I'm open to hearing from you how we can improve this process. Ultimately, I think we're here to make things better for Canadians, and establishing a working relationship that works for everyone is really important to me.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Chan.