Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2017

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Okay, I'll share my time with MP Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

Minister, like you, I'm new here today at this committee, but I'm certainly not new to the House. As Mr. Christopherson pointed out and Mr. Graham alluded to, I was here during the unfair/fair elections act, whatever the name it goes by these days.

Section 3 of the charter says, “Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election...”. It's quite clear. Witness testimony at that time a few years ago, time after time, witness after witness, not just here in Canada, but also in Europe, pointed to what the former bill was trying to do, which was to limit that right to vote.

An analysis of section 3 of the charter says “There is an onus on the government to prevent unreasonable administrative [barriers] to the exercise of [our] democratic rights”. It's our responsibility to make sure that these barriers do not exist. The thrust of that last piece of legislation was to put up barriers to those they felt they wanted to disenfranchise.

In my limited time, could I get your comment on this, and how, as minister, I hope you would not be in favour of putting up any more administrative barriers, and to enfranchise the most vulnerable in society to exercise their democratic right in section 3?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

You have 20 seconds for the answer.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Sorry.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Okay, in 20 seconds, I think that Bill C-33, should it pass second reading and come to committee and be implemented in law, would address many of those issues that you raise. I think it would be an important step forward to making sure that all Canadians have access to voting, which, as you say, is their right.

Thank you.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thanks for being here.

I'm going to start with a yes or no question. I promise that in my remaining questions, I'll give you more opportunity to expand upon your answer, but I'd like to start with a yes or no.

Is your government committed to ensuring that there's no foreign influence in our elections?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you. I appreciate your indulgence on the yes or no, just timing-wise.

After your mandate letter talks about getting rid of the electoral reform promise, in the first bullet of the things you are instructed to do, the Prime Minister indicates that you're supposed to “lead the Government of Canada's efforts to defend the Canadian electoral process from cyber threats”. I was thinking about that because we don't have electronic voting or online voting, but utilize paper ballots, the good old-fashioned method of voting. Unless your government has some intention of ignoring another of the recommendations the committee makes and goes to an electronic ballot or some kind of online voting, I don't see much of a threat of some kind of hack of our election results, or something like that.

I think there is something else. Party financing is mentioned in your mandate letter, and I believe it was in your predecessor's too. It talks about looking at political party financing and third party financing, and the limits on that. One of the things I think there is a serious concern about is foreign money influencing elections through third party spending. I want to get your sense on that and whether it is something your government, in the changes you've been mandated to make, will be looking at and dealing with, that is, foreign financing via third party spending in elections and the influence that would then have on elections.

Is that something that you're committed to doing? When would we expect to see something in that regard?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

That's an interesting question. Thank you for raising it.

I want to go back to the beginning of your question, though, about political parties being hacked. Recent events have demonstrated that this is a very real issue, and it's something that we need to be attuned to and proactive on. In fact, just two weeks ago, the Australian Signals Directorate said they were actually—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Sorry, Minister, I hate to interrupt you, but I have a very limited amount of time and have only about two minutes remaining. I understand that you probably have something you want to say, but could you get to the subject of the question I've asked because I want to make sure we get there. The question is about foreign financing.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Yes, sure. As it stands right now, foreign entities cannot give money to political parties or candidates, but—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

They can to third parties.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Part of my mandate will be to look at spending limits for third parties. That's an interesting point you raised, and I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts on that as we move forward.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay. Given that you've indicated that your government is committed to ensuring that there is no foreign influence in our elections, and you've indicated that it's something you're committed to as a government, I think it's important that you deal with this issue. It's something that I would encourage you to look at.

When the Chief Electoral Officer was before the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, there were a number of questions asked in this regard. The Chief Electoral Officer confirmed that there is significant concern that third parties can be foreign-funded in terms of surveys, websites, calling services doing push-polls and things like that, including communications with electors, all of which can be funded by them. If you are committed as a government to ensuring that foreign influence isn't part of our elections, you will have to deal with this. I would encourage you to do that quickly.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Okay.

Do I have time to respond?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

You do, yes.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I appreciate that. I think that's a really interesting point to raise. I don't know what your deliberations have been because they've been in camera, but if this is something that the committee wants to comment on, I would welcome that feedback.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Schmale, for five minutes, and then we'll go to Mr. Chan.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair. I appreciate that. Thank you to the Minister. I had the pleasure of meeting your father at an agricultural event in Nestleton almost a year ago now. He told me you were elected at the same time I was, so I was glad to meet him. Your father seems like a great guy.

I was listening to your conversation about looking into how people are sent information via Facebook and Twitter that is aligned with their political views. I was taken aback by your answer looking at the way you can almost control information and the government controlling information that people get. Personally, when I heard that, my back went up. That wasn't the line of questioning I was going to go on, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts about what you plan to do when you say that the government is going to ensure that people get a wider range of information.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I think you misheard me, because it was more about ensuring the integrity of information. It's actually not the government controlling information at all. It was more a general comment about the way our media landscape is at the moment. I think it's incumbent upon us as community leaders, as politicians, and as a government to think about how we ensure that integrity of the media moving forward, but, obviously, the government can't control and will not be controlling that kind of information.

The comment was more with regard to how information is currently consumed by Canadians, by people around the world, and the kinds of tools we can offer our citizens to provide them with the ability to discern the quality of the information they are receiving.

I think this is something that is very much at a preliminary stage of deliberation and something we're very much just coming to grips with. I certainly didn't mean it in the way you suggested.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay. I just want to make sure the government isn't controlling or showing people what information they think people should be reading.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

No. Absolutely not.