Evidence of meeting #47 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parties.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ian McCowan  Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet (Governance), Privy Council Office
Natasha Kim  Director, Democratic Reform, Privy Council Office

February 7th, 2017 / 12:30 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Very good. Thank you, Chair.

Minister, thank you very much for coming. I've congratulated you privately. Let me publicly congratulate you on your ascension to cabinet.

While I have a moment, I will also give my public congratulations in addition to my private ones to my colleague Filomena Tassi, who has also been appointed deputy whip of the government. I wish both of you well. I know you'll do a great job.

Minister, thank you so much for being here. As you can appreciate, this is like the last meeting with your predecessor. These really aren't meet-and-greets, hi-how-are-you courtesy meetings. We specifically called you in to deal with a couple of issues that are affecting our work. I can't go too far. We're limited because it's in camera work, but I don't think it's any big secret that the work at committee has seized up until we get these issues resolved. I can't get into the specifics, but we need some answers here that will allow us to get back to work, so I'm going to be dealing with some rather mundane issues to most people, but they are critically important for us.

You stated that you have deep respect for committees. I've heard this from the government. The Prime Minister enunciated it during the campaign all the way through and said committees were going to matter and were going to be respected. That's the issue. One of the big issues was that we were in the midst, as you rightly alluded to, of going through the Chief Electoral Officer's report. We were doing good work. We had our sleeves rolled up. We were identifying things that we could quickly agree on and setting aside the harder things that we needed to spend time on. Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Bill C-33 landed with a thud in the middle of our work.

It left us with a real problem, because if you say you respect the work of the committees, then it would have made sense for you to wait until we had issued at least some reports to give some advice on legislation you might be considering. But the way it was done, there was total disregard for the work we're doing. It left us—me anyway, I'll speak for myself—feeling that it is a make-work project. Why bother doing all this if the government is going to ignore it and just do what it wants?

There is that issue. Then the second, somewhat attached issue is this. I appreciate Mr. Graham's raising it, and you did allude to it in part, but I really need something clear on this, Minister, with respect. The second part of this is going forward. I had said we wanted an absolute guarantee that you aren't going to do that again. Mr. Chan and Mr. Graham argued that we could appreciate that the government can't give that kind of a blanket assurance in case we get bogged down. I understood all that. Again, I think you made some reference to that in your remarks.

What we were looking for was respect for our process, to find some way we could communicate so we would know what you are considering and you would ask us if we would turn our attention to that particular area to give you our thinking and to help advise you. You can choose to take it or not, but to just continue to produce electoral reform bills—and, by the way, as you know, getting rid of some of that awful unfair elections act stuff is a priority.... But procedures matter and committees matter, so we need some assurance that the work we are doing is actually meaningful and that the government is considering it; otherwise, why would we bother doing it? We would just go on to other things.

I'm looking for two things, if you will. One is an acknowledgement that the government was wrong. An apology would be nice and not that difficult, because it really was so wrong and disrespectful. Second, I'd like a further undertaking that there will be more dialogue so that we can actually do work that does help inform your decisions in a timely way.

Thank you, Chair.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Thank you so much, David. I look forward to working with you and I'm glad we have such strong bay area support.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

That's harbour, Minister, Hamilton Harbour, not Burlington Bay.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

We could discuss that outside of this committee. I'm here four weeks to the day of being appointed because I believe in the importance of the committee and in the work you're doing. I really respect the work that you're doing.

In terms of communication, Andy Fillmore, my parliamentary secretary, is here. His job is to be engaged with Parliament. I don't have a specific work plan at this time in terms of when future legislation will come forward. I want to be in touch with the committee on that to make sure that we understand what the schedule is, what you're working on, and how we can work in concert. Ultimately, I know you and I are here for the same reason, because we want to make sure that we're doing what's right for Canadians. I know that you have a lot of experience and knowledge on this committee, and a lot of good years behind you—

12:35 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

It sounds like a lifetime achievement award. Way to go.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

—and ahead of you, of course.

We want to make sure that we're getting those elements of the Fair Elections Act repealed and, of course, that we're working.... I said in my comments to David but I'm going to repeat it right now, that the work you're doing on the Chief Electoral Officer's report, on his recommendations, is valuable. I think those are two pieces that can work in tandem and in concert. I will take those recommendations very seriously to see if there are further things that can be done to ensure that we update the Elections Canada Act as best as possible and that we're doing what we need to do for Elections Canada and supporting Canadians' access to democracy.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Thanks, Minister.

How much time do I have, Chair?

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Three minutes.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Thanks.

Quickly, could we have a recognition that Bill C-33 was wrong, please, to allow us to get down to our work? You can't say you respect the committee and the government, and then insult the work of this committee and not have some kind of an apology or a recognition that it was wrong to do that. Please.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

I'm a new minister. I want us to get started on the right foot. I want us to start working together on this, so I'm going to say let's start with me, from a place of respect, and I'm going to do that with you. I'm looking forward to working on this. We have legislation that's before the House. I'm looking forward to coming to committee, but I want to allow you some time to make sure you get the work done that you need on the recommendations, so that we can work together to do what we need to do for Canadians.

So, David, I look forward to working with you on this, because I know we can get this done.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

You're not making it easy, Minister.

Whatever little time I have left, I'd like to give to my friend, Mr. Cullen. It's probably about 30 seconds.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

You mentioned starting on the right foot. Your first job as minister was to kill the central promise that your government made on electoral reform. It's like you were hired to run a company that then declared bankruptcy. It seems to me that if you want to beat down cynicism, keeping a promise would be really important.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Five seconds.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Minister, you said earlier that your government was elected on a false majority. Do you still believe that?

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

I had said that some people, when talking about electoral reform, had put that forward in terms of why we needed to reform the system. I think it's incumbent upon all of us as parliamentarians, as leaders in our community, to make sure that we are constantly encouraging people to get involved in the democratic process. Whether something—a policy—is put forward that we agree or disagree with, it's extraordinarily important for all of us as leaders and politicians to make sure that we continue to engage Canadians on issues they're passionate about.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

So you don't believe it anymore?

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Mr. Graham, for five minutes.

Sorry?

Oh, it's Filomena's turn. Okay. Ms. Tassi first, please.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

I'd like to begin by thanking my colleague, Mr. Christopherson, for his congratulations. I appreciate that and it's very well received. Like everyone else on the committee, Minister, I'd like to congratulate you and thank you for your dedication and hard work.

I'd like to read from your mandate letter, which says that you are mandated to do the following:

Bring forward options to create an independent commissioner to organize political party leaders' debates during future federal election campaigns, with a mandate to improve Canadians' knowledge of the parties, their leaders, and their policy positions.

I would like you to comment on why you believe it's important to establish an independent commissioner in order to organize leaders' debates.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Thank you very much, Filomena, and welcome to the committee.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

Thanks.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

It's our first day together. I look forward to working with you on this as well.

When it comes to leaders' debates, I think we saw quite clearly in the last election how, depending on the preferences of particular leaders, debates happened or did not happen. The one that comes to mind in particular is the women's debate, which I think was very important and should have gone through, regardless of a political leader deciding not to participate. It is also about setting the number of debates that are required for Canadians to engage with and listen to, and hearing the ideas and policies that different political parties have through the leaders of each of those parties.

I think this is important, and this is an important step in terms of regulating and mandating how many debates we have. Then, of course, it's up to the different political party leaders as to whether they choose to participate in them or not. However, they should happen regardless. I think that's important, so that Canadians have some kind of predictability when it comes to debates. They have predictability in terms of understanding and knowing when and how they can hear from leaders of different political parties and gain access to that information.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

Okay, thank you.

You mandate letter, as well, provides that you are to “enhance transparency for the public at large and media in the political fundraising system for Cabinet members, party leaders and leadership candidates.”

Can you comment on why the government has decided to enhance the fundraising system, and why you believe it's important?

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Thank you for the question.

This is with regard to political fundraising, specifically fundraisers attended by cabinet ministers, party leaders, or those aspiring to be leaders. The fact of the matter is that while we have some very strict rules in Canada with regard to fundraising, we think it can be more accessible. The information can be more timely with regard to public access to this information.

This is something that I look forward to working with the committee on. At some point, legislation will have to be developed. Of course, this will probably come before this committee, so I look forward to your input on this, and your ideas in terms of how we can strengthen our political fundraising laws, particularly this one. I'll be looking forward to working with you on this.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

Okay, thank you.

How much time do I have?

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Two minutes.