Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I guess it's because he's not wearing the snappy tie he had on yesterday that he doesn't want to be televised.
I'll continue with two quick quotes. They're very short. Again, from a former member of this House who resigned during this Parliament, the member from Calgary Midnapore, who was again quoting Mr. Diefenbaker when he said, “when you come to parliament on your first day, you wonder how you ever got here.” I did just that. “After that you wonder how the other...members got [here].” I think many of us do that on a pretty consistent basis. We look across the aisle and we wonder how some of you got here—some, not all.
There are members I have listened to in debate, both in committee and then in the House of Commons, when I've actually put down my iPad, put down my pen, and I've taken the time to listen to them. Mr. Chan is one of them, on the BDS motion. We disagreed on it, but I really appreciated his comments. It was a different viewpoint than mine.
At committee I've had disagreements with Mr. Fragiskatos. We have severely disagreed over process and policy, but I've never not appreciated his contributions to debate, even when he's gone over time, because I appreciate the viewpoint and I think he has an opportunity to be heard.
I see Madam Jordan is here. We served together on the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations. She knows I have gone on and on for hours, it feels like, when we've had witnesses at that committee to testify and explain to us why a particular regulation was so badly written that, in my eyes, it needed a rewrite, or why the public servants in a particular department—the Canadian Food Inspection Agency comes to mind—had not done the work the committee had directed them to do. For 25 years, whether under Liberal or Conservative governments, it did not matter. They simply were not following the direction of Parliament.
My worry is that without this amendment, this study will lead to the implementation of these few pages into whatever this will turn into, and there's simply not enough time to go into this. It's divided into themes, but each one of these themes could almost be its own separate study. Programming could be its own separate study, because it would have a profound impact on the type of work you are able to do in this House. Then how we deal with the Senate bills could be an entirely different study, as I mentioned before.
I think it's important to bear in mind that the rules we've inherited from our predecessors worked for them, and while tweaking should be done and we should amend the rules, it should only be done when we all unanimously agree at the committee level, so then you could recommend it to Parliament. Then when people ask if the committee agreed, they won't just say they agreed on a majority vote, which the government caucus has the power to do, but that they unanimously agreed, and all the people at this table will be there for the vote. If I'm so fortunate to be here as a substitute for a permanent member of this committee, I will then take that vote in the affirmative. I would like to have unanimous agreement at the committee. That's why this amendment is so important. We can only get there in this place.
I talked about the institution of Parliament as an accumulation of customs and traditions, but it's also the building we are in, literally. This committee room in the bowels of Parliament is as close as you can get, I think, without being in the chamber. It's one of the more prestigious-looking committee rooms.
The way the House of Commons is laid out and the way it's represented, the way the rows of chairs are assigned, where the Speaker sits, the Speaker's chair itself, the stained glass windows, all add to the veneration that we should all bear to the institution. When you walk into a hotel and it's well renovated, well presented, you'll have a different feeling about the place and you will treat it differently than you would others.
I've worked in heritage buildings, such as the Calgary Chamber of Commerce, which used to be in an Odd Fellows Temple in Calgary. The building was falling apart. You treated it accordingly, poorly. The chamber moved into a brand new renovated space in the Burns Building in downtown Calgary. Staff members then treated it differently. They also started to work differently, without the approval of their managers, which was a problem. I think how we treat institutions is also how we treat Parliament.
I think, Mr. Chair, you were the one who mentioned the semicircle concept during the debate on the standing orders on October 6. I know that's been used sometimes by constituents, and I've met individuals who think we should adopt a European model. That's not in reforming the Standing Orders of the House of Commons, but you could see a situation in the future where they would try to reform the way our seating is laid out into a semicircle to make it less confrontational. I think that starts from the wrong principle. I'm debating; this is deliberation. It's not confrontation.
We can have confrontation outside with the media present, which would not be edifying in any way. It would not help us in any way. It would not build trust or consensus. We would not be able to co-operate afterwards. I believe the idea of a semicircle is a terrible idea, including for committees.
I think the way we're laid out right now is just fine. I can look at all the government caucus members and discuss with them the issues of the day. I can see all their names too, which is very helpful, especially when you're a rookie new member and there are 337 names to remember. I assume you know your own, hopefully.
The reason we have it laid out in such a way goes back to the cathedral concept and Diefenbaker's great love of this place. Mr. Diefenbaker served almost 40 years in the House of Commons. He knew this building inside and out. His respect for the traditions and the customs of this place were beyond reproach. He loved Parliament. It was both a speaking crutch, as I mentioned before, and something he deeply believed in. We should have the same love for Parliament he had, and one way we can show our appreciation of this place is by not drastically changing or amending the Standing Orders of the House without seeking unanimous agreement. Even in terms of the layout we have, members have talked about the two sword lengths. I'm pretty sure that's apocryphal. I'm not sure that's actually true—