Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 9th, 2017

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Yes, and I know because I have my Uber receipt.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay, so you're quite certain it was seven minutes.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It does seem a bit odd for those gates to remain closed seven minutes after the bus entered.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Yes, and that's what I couldn't figure out. I couldn't figure out why I could see the bus at the checkpoint. I didn't understand why it wasn't coming to us, and I guess I could have approached the folks, but my colleague from Beauce was far more energetic, I would say, and I was wearing heels so I wasn't walking much further than I needed to walk that day, and he went over. He said, “I'll find out what's going on,” because it was a long time.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Clearly, the time that you would have gone over there, Max, would have been after the bus because you weren't there when the bus passed through.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Absolutely.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

You were given that information by the officer, and it just all seems a little odd to me. There's something kind of off on it. That's why the video would be helpful, because you were told that it was the motorcade. The bus had already gone through, so why they were keeping the gates closed.... There's something there that's odd. I'm not saying that anything malicious occurred, but it just seems like something didn't work. The procedures didn't work, or there's some information we don't seem to have. The video would probably be quite helpful.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I must add also, the official was not so sure. He told me that must be the empty motorcade from the Prime Minister, but he wasn't sure. He said, “I'll ask”. He went to an RCMP officer, and they were on their walkie-talkies to try to find out what was happening.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Did either of you see the Prime Minister's motorcade or any evidence of it being on the Hill or exiting the Hill?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

I did not.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Maybe if I have a little bit of time I will return to what I mentioned at the beginning, which is, obviously, this is a serious matter, and I think it's good for both of you to be here. You have the opportunity to express what it means when your privileges are breached and to talk about your constituents, if you want to speak to that. Have you heard from constituents who obviously are disappointed in the fact that you were prevented from being able to vote on their behalf? You could speak to that.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

I will, very quickly, and then I'll leave it to Max.

The reality is that budget day is a very high-profile day. Despite the fact that we are running for leader of our party, it was extremely important to be there that day. I had left enough time, and Max had left enough time, for us to get up on the Hill, even with the extra vote in between that and the four o'clock announcement, and we did not get on the Hill to watch the minister rise and give the speech. That would be a really big issue, not only because of our constituents, but because of the fact that we are seeking the leadership of the party and we need to be there on those big days.

I was beginning to get more and more worried as time went by, and when Max came back and said that it had to do with an empty motorcade of the Prime Minister's, I thought this made no sense. I've never heard of this security issue before, about buses not being allowed on the Hill because of a prime ministerial motorcade, and I grew concerned. Max said, “Let's walk”, and we were able to walk up.

I was just very concerned about getting there in time for the budget. I was also very much afraid of the whip yelling at us for missing the vote, quite frankly, because it was an important vote. When I saw Gord, he was extremely agitated, but he just said, “If you were withheld from coming, then you need to rise on a point of privilege”. I consulted with the whip when I first came in, to explain why I was late, and he said, “Then you should proceed to think about a point of privilege”.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I would just like to add that we are all members of the House of Commons and that we are here to represent our constituents.

It is true that, during this leadership race, I have already missed several votes because I was travelling across Canada to meet with Conservatives. However, important votes are held on certain days, and we have to be there. On that budget day, there were several important votes, and I wanted to fulfill my duty as a member of Parliament. People from Beauce and from my riding expected the member they have elected to be able to vote and represent them well. The people of Beauce are well aware that I have been absent this year a bit more often than usual. That was due to the leadership race, and they forgive me for it.

However, on that day, I was here and I wanted to exercise my right to vote and represent my constituents. That is why we say that the vote is a privilege of the members of the House of Commons. It is a privilege to be elected, to vote and to represent our constituents. I was unable to exercise that privilege, that right to vote. This is why we rose together and raised a question of privilege: our privileges had been breached. It is important for members to be able to vote and represent their constituents, and we were unable to do so.

Today, I am very happy that we have had an opportunity to clarify all this and to consider what can be done in the future. However, I personally believe that a communication problem arose between the RCMP and the House of Commons officers. That is why the buses were left waiting for several minutes before the gates were opened. I will carefully read the recommendations you will issue to assure myself that, in the future, other members will not have to go through what Ms. Raitt and I experienced on March 22.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you to both of you for being here, and best of luck as we lead up to May 27 and choosing the next Conservative leader and the next Prime Minister of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Christopherson, go ahead.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thanks for taking the time, given how busy you both are. Hopefully, we've been helpful in trying to accommodate your schedules because we're very sensitive to the added pressure of running for leader.

I want to start by saying that I agree. We do need to review some of the security aspects that are on the video, and I accept that we may need to do that in camera.

Here's something that troubles me as we're going through this. My first elected position ever, when I was 22, was to become chair of the health and safety committee at my workplace. At a very early age I became aware of the fact that we are all temporarily able-bodied, those of us who are; and that ultimately we're all going to be disabled, even if it's the final act that makes us totally disabled. When I hear, well, it was okay because they can disembark from the bus and walk, I say not everybody can walk.

I just went through the last five or six weeks of hell with sciatica. It finally has subsided now. Anybody who's had that knows how painful that is and how debilitating it can be. I'm used to being physically healthy, I've been very fortunate in my life, but I actually had to make some changes in my routine working with my staff because I could only walk so far. I remember another time, and it didn't get recorded, but we got stopped again, and nobody decided to make an issue of it because it was only for a moment, but the answer was that we all walked across the field. At that time, Diane Finley, our colleague, was in a leg brace, and there she is marching across the front lawn of Parliament to get to the House to vote because the bus had been stopped.

I don't think we quite picked up enough on this issue about disembarking and walking out. We have problems with walking access, where people have been stopped, and we need to deal with that. I really think that accepting, oh, well, just get off the bus and go, that's not an answer for a lot of people. You have your partisan stuff; and I have my digs in about the buses not being frequent enough, about staff and members, late at night, having to walk across, and the security of it. It just makes no sense to me. I haven't seen any move by the new government to reinstate those buses or hire back the drivers who were laid off.

This issue is important.

Can I get your thoughts, colleagues, and any solutions you have on the fact that saying you can get off the bus and walk is not necessarily an answer for everybody?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Sure.

It's not sciatica, but as I did mention, I was wearing inappropriate walking shoes that day, I have to admit, that went into the calculation of whether or not I was going to walk up to the Hill. Quite frankly, it's more than just comfort; it is about walking long distances in inappropriate footwear and those kinds of things. Yes, it was my choice for that footwear that day, but I should have the ability to rely upon the transport and make the according plans to go with whatever I was feeling that day, and be able to depend upon it. That was the reason that I ended up staying there so long. If I had had more appropriate footwear, I probably would have taken the opportunity, when I realized they were taking so long to go up to the Hill, to go under my own steam.

That being said, Dave, what I do appreciate very much is the fact that in some cases when we get close to the votes you can notice that those buses are moving a bit more frequently in their time frame, and I commend the House of Commons for making sure this happens. But for this absolute stoppage for no real reason, even if it was an empty motorcade belonging to the Prime Minister or an empty motorcade that was guarding a media bus, I don't think either of them are good enough reasons to prevent people from being able to access the Hill in a form and a manner that they are used to and deserve to have, regardless of the reason that you're on it. It doesn't have to be about whether we have a debilitating injury that day. It can be whatever reason the person may have, quite frankly.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

And the weather.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Yes, because then we talk about my hair. Absolutely.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Well said.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

It's part of the game.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You can't show up looking like a drowned rat.

Go ahead.