Okay. Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #57 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was security.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #57 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was security.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I have a couple of observations, just listening to the testimony from you two and the security detail. First, I think what we see is that this incident happened, regardless of the reason. The fact is it happened and it shouldn't have happened. Whether it was a media bus or whether it was the Prime Minister's empty entourage, it doesn't really matter. The fact is it happened and should not have happened.
You were in the position that you were able to walk up. Uncomfortable footwear excluded, you were able to do that. Had you not been able to walk up, that would have been another problem we would be dealing with. That's something we need to deal with, because if it were someone else, this would be a bigger problem.
There are a couple of other things. The fact that the traffic was stopped for a media bus concerns me. Not that I don't like the media, but the fact that they had to stop the actual buses and the members from going up is questionable, because I think that's a bit extreme. I would love to see that video footage if we get a chance. It just seems extreme that you would stop MPs from getting up there, just for the media bus. Again, not that the media is.... I have friends in the media. That is questionable.
Also, there is the Speaker's report. I don't have it in front of me, so I won't quote directly. He said, I believe, three buses were stopped and held up, and his report alluded to other MPs being on the bus. Did you happen to see any, just out of curiosity? No one else has come forward.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC
We were able to see the buses, but I don't know who was inside.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
You had mentioned, Mr. Bernier, the security being on their walkie-talkies and the telephone, trying to figure it out. One thing we were dealing with as a committee before, in our review of the PPS, is the fact that they are all on different communications systems. They're on three different communications systems, and that might be a significant problem we need to deal with as a committee. As you said, no one really seemed to know what was going on, or had any clue. I believe they just knew they had to stop traffic, they had to stop the buses. Nobody could get through, and they were not sure why.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
They were all trying to, on their different frequencies....
I agree with whoever said that about the bus drivers. I have noted before that the bus drivers know when a vote is coming. My office is in the Confederation Building. I leave via the back. The bus driver once picked me up at the back, looked to his left, and saw some members coming out of the Justice Building. He looked around, saw that there were no other buses, and went back to pick up the Justice people. We did a U-turn and went right up there. I thought it was very forward-thinking of that driver to realize that there was a vote and that he had better go back and get those members.
I think there's a lesson there. These drivers must know something. We need to move that to the security detail as well, so that everybody knows it. The people in the Centre Block know it because they'll say that it's 10 minutes to the vote and we have a lot of time and that kind of thing. I think we do need to move forward.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
Thank you.
I agree with my friend Mr. Schmale. The bus drivers do have a great communication mechanism by which they know how many minutes are left to get to a vote. I've been in a similar situation. They're able to update you while you're on the bus, because you're very worried at that time and you want to make it for that important vote. I sympathize with the situation.
However, I also know that it is incumbent upon members to give themselves a certain amount of time. I'd like to ask you how much time you think should be allotted for any given member to leave from down below on the Hill, or from their office, for access to the House of Commons. That's a question that I sometimes wonder about. How much time should I leave myself? Is 15 minutes enough? Is 20 minutes enough for me to make it or can I do it in five minutes?
How much time do you usually give yourself?
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
Having been here since 2008, I have never missed a vote because of a timing issue. I know where I am and I know my surroundings, so I build in the travel time. It depends on where you are in the precinct. When I had offices on the other side, in Gatineau, I knew how much time I needed to get here. It's the same as being in the Justice Building. I know how much time I need.
If I may point something out to the members of the committee that we haven't talked about specifically, but that I did tell you in my testimony—and I don't know whether or not you followed up with the officials—the bus did not go through security, right? The bus didn't go through the security at all. Perhaps that's the reason the Hill became sterilized at that point and they didn't let anybody else up on the Hill: because that bus was not secured. No one inspected the bus. No one identified the people on the bus. That's why there was a motorcade with the bus: in order to bring it up onto the Hill.
If that's the case, then you should have a conversation with security about checking that bus, because the expediency for journalists attending a budget on the Hill should not be greater than it is for members going to the Hill for the presentation of the budget. If it's too much work to investigate everybody on the bus or to look over the bus, or to do the little mirror thing under the bus, that's their calculation, but it seems to me that it was in the balance of convenience for security as opposed to the balance of our privilege as members.
That's the key point that I wanted to bring out today.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC
When I'm in my office in the Confederation Building, 12 minutes is enough to go to the House and be able to vote. I did the same thing at that time.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
NDP
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
May 9th, 2017 / 12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
I don't know about the security checking that happened with the press bus, because up until very recently we were led to believe that it was the Prime Minister's motorcade, so I did not have information about that. This helps inform the committee's further investigation as to what can be done.
The bells are a great idea. I was wondering if you would like to leave any other advice with this committee as to what can be done in order to avoid this situation. I know myself that we don't have access to buses all the time at any given second of the day. It has happened many times for all of us that we have had to walk our way up to the Hill for a vote because the bus is en route somewhere and we're not going to make it at the right time. We have to allow ourselves that time to get up there.
Are there any other recommendations you can leave with this committee as to what can be done by either party?
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC
It would be great if people at the security gate knew that there was a vote. As you just said, the bus drivers for the members of Parliament know that, so I think they must also know when there is a vote. That will help also.
However, the communication between the RCMP and the officials of the House must be better.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
The access of the members to the Hill has precedence over any security measures or plans that have been put in place for whatever odd thing was happening that day. I don't think this would have happened on a normal day. I think it happened because it was budget day, and we had strangers on the Hill.
