Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 15th, 2017

[Charles Robert]

It has not that I'm aware of.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

So what made you decide to come to the House versus the Senate?

[Charles Robert]

It was the challenge.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Very good. Now, I know that our current bible, as we call it, the green book, was last published in 2009, effectively 2008. Is that something you'd commit to updating if you became the new Clerk?

[Charles Robert]

Certainly.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

And what time frame do you think that would be done in?

[Charles Robert]

It is a massive book, and I would commit to doing it as quickly but as thoroughly as possible.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You mentioned that you were notified this week that you would be the successful nominee for this position. Do you recall who notified you?

[Charles Robert]

The notification was in the chamber on Tuesday, and I received a call from the minister on Monday evening.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

That was from the House leader?

[Charles Robert]

Yes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I appreciate the responses. I have a little bit of time left, which I'm going to yield to Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, because of the shortened time frame for questioning this witness, we are faced with the awkward situation that it's unlikely that a Conservative MP will have the floor again. There are seven minutes for each of the first two questioners, and seven minutes as well for the third from the New Democrats, and then five more minutes for the Liberals before it comes back to us. That takes us past 1:45 p.m., which is when we wrap up this piece of business.

This is relevant, Mr. Chair, and I know that as someone who knows the rules well, our witness, Mr. Robert, will understand the practical limitation that imposes on us. I am able to move the motion of which I gave notice earlier, without 48 hours' notice as long as it is dealing directly with business now under consideration. That's under our rules for this committee, which this committee adopted on January 26, 2016, that 48 hours' notice be required for any substantive motion to be considered by the committee, unless the substantive motion relates directly to business then under consideration.

So with that in mind, and because I have no other alternative, I apologize to our witness for the fact that instead of asking questions, I'm instead moving this motion. It's literally my only opportunity to do so since I must do so with the floor.

So I therefore move:

That, in relation to its consideration of the proposed appointment of Charles Robert to be Clerk of the House of Commons, the Committee invite former Clerks of the House of Commons, Robert Marleau and Audrey O'Brien, to appear in order to gain a better understanding of the role, duties and responsibilities of the Clerk of the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

The motion is open to debate, and you could speak to it. We have 14 minutes left on this section.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Understood. I'll try to be as brief as I can.

The reason for moving this is we feel it's important to have a full discussion prior to making an appointment as important as this one. This is placed in the hands of this committee so that it can carry out full discussions, and the best way of doing this is to have former incumbents of this position, of which there are two at this point, giving testimony so that we can determine the appropriateness of the government's choice.

I did ask the minister earlier whether she thought this was acceptable to do. You heard her response, which sounded to me like she was saying there was no problem. We are our own masters. It's reasonable to do that. I did ask her if she was going to override us and simply introduce a motion in the House, as she is allowed to do, should we not have come to a conclusion. She was, frankly, not clear on that, but I had the impression she is willing to supersede us. She didn't say no, so I have to assume she meant that, yes, she is willing to do that.

At any rate, one of the things that means is while I think that would not be appropriate, the government does have that way of achieving its goal if it chooses. I wouldn't advise it, but it is a possibility, so this allows us to be better informed. It allows the House to be better informed when the decision comes for the House as a whole on this recommended appointment.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Nater.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to echo the comments from Mr. Reid about the importance of this fulsome analysis.

We have had an acting clerk in the House of Commons now for the better part of three years. Our previous Clerk did retire, I believe it was in December 2015, or she announced her intention in December 2015, so it's been a lengthy process up to this point in terms of this nomination and appointment process. Now we are in the dying days of this session, the dying days before the summer recess. I know everyone is eager to return to their ridings and do the good work in our ridings that has been mentioned earlier, but I don't think it would be appropriate for us to do so without fully studying this process, studying the responsibilities and the role of this position.

Hearing from the former clerks, as Mr. Reid has mentioned in his motion, would be appropriate. This is a position that does not come open often, and rightfully so. The Clerk of the House of Commons, like the Clerk of the Senate, is a position that we want to have for a significant period of time. They are the guardians of a great deal of institutional knowledge and expertise. It is a position that we want to have preserved for a long period, so when we have the opportunity to have this appointment, we need to take it upon ourselves to fully examine the process, talk to the former clerks, find out from them what their experiences were, and what their thoughts are on both the process and the role itself.

We're going through an evolving time right now in both houses of Parliament. We have this opportunity now to have this discussion going forward. We need to take our time. We need to have the opportunity to have a full debate and discussion. That's why it is important that we vote in favour of this motion, that we have this opportunity before we rise for the summer to have this fulsome debate.

I'm not going to take any more time. I'm not going to filibuster. I simply just want to have that on the record as well.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

The next two speakers on the motion—and we have 10 minutes for this section of the meeting—are Mr. Simms, and Mr. Richards.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

In the same spirit of that, I'm not sure. As far as the qualifications are concerned, we all know generally what they are and how Mr. Robert can fulfill these requirements. This is more about his abilities and his experience, which are great, to do this job. I think the parties were consulted. The leaders have provided the qualifications they want to see in a position such as the Clerk of the House of Commons. They can table that if they wish, but in the meantime, we should just get on with this.

We should hear from Mr. Robert and see how he measures up, and I'll leave it at that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Chair, given the comments I've just heard, and I am the last speaker, if we can bring this to a vote, I'd be happy to yield to allow there to be a vote on this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Does everyone agree?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Chair, a recorded division.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Okay, we'll take a recorded division, Mr. Clerk.