Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 19th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Go ahead, Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The consequences of not adopting this amendment would be what?

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

I'll defer to the officials on that.

[Madeleine Dupuis]

Right now, organizers have the obligation to tell political parties the information they need to file their reports, but if the organizers become aware of a change in that information, they're not obligated to tell the party, and the party, not knowing, can't update the report. This would put the obligation on the organizers to update any reporting information if they're aware of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Is there any further debate?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

LIB-5 and LIB-8 are carried.

PV-2 cannot be moved because LIB-3 was adopted. Those are all the amendments on clause 2. Can we vote on clause 2, as amended?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

On division.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

On division.

(Clause 2 as amended agreed to on division)

I notice there are no amendments on clauses 3 to 8. I'm going to ask the legislative assistant if I can do one motion to deal with all of them.

(Clauses 3 to 8 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 9)

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

All the amendments for clause 9 were all consequential, so we don't have to deal with NDP-8, LIB-6, NDP-9, LIB-7, and LIB-8.

Shall clause 9, as amended, carry?

(Clause 9 agreed to as amended on division)

(Clause 10 agreed to on division)

(On clause 11)

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

We're on PV-3. PV is not here, but it's deemed moved.

If anyone understands this amendment, do they want to present it?

Go ahead, David.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It ties to NDP-10, and it deals with the fine. I had gone notionally with a fine from $1,000 to $5,000. I was under the impression—

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

I forgot to say that if this passes, David, NDP-10 cannot be moved because of a line conflict.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, it's an either-or situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Elizabeth, we're on PV-3.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I know. I heard that. I didn't think you'd get to clause 11 so quickly.

Thank you for giving me a chance to speak to it. It's very straightforward. Again, and particularly I suppose, I looked to the testimony of Jean-Pierre Kingsley, who thought that a $1,000 penalty was not going to have much of an impact. With the help of drafters, I put before you his suggestion that the penalty be related to the offence and be basically a doubling of whatever money was received that violated the scheme of this particular fundraising code.

It's a very straightforward amendment. Anybody who holds a fundraiser and collects funds that are in excess will find themselves paying basically double what they received.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

I have Mr. Christopherson and then Mr. Reid.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

As you can see in NDP-10, which follows PV-3, I'm not married to an exact number or formula of penalty, but I am in agreement. A number of witnesses said that the $1,000 fine is really a bit low. In some cases, that really could just become the cost of doing business, and then people could just ignore the rules all they want.

I'm open to either. I just hope that we agree collectively that $1,000 is not enough. Then the question is, where is the comfort level for a majority of us?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Reid is next, and then Mr. Graham.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Are we once again in a situation where the passage of one amendment would preclude the other from being debated?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Yes, NDP-10 could not be debated.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

NDP-10 could not be debated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Do you know what it is?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

I'd like to hear Mr. Christopherson explain what it is.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It raises the penalty from $1,000 to $5,000. Elizabeth's amendment would use the Kingsley formula of double the amount that was raised. Those are the two.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you.

May I ask the witnesses whether using the term “double the amount” means—

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

That was raised.