Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 4th, 2020

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Minister Coady, you mentioned the special committee that's been set up. Is there a similar principle you're operating on there in Newfoundland and Labrador, that there is consensus among the members of that committee before decisions are made going forward?

[Siobhan Coady]

Certainly, we've collaborated quite well together and, as I said, when we passed the motion to set up the select committee, we made sure that we had representation from the various entities within the House. We ensured that we had an independent member, the third party and the opposition, so that we accommodated everyone's concerns and wishes.

We have been meeting collaboratively, talking about how we ensure the privileges of members of the House of Assembly and how we ensure a well-functioning House. We, as well, have done a kind of mock parliament utilizing staff, actually, to see how the flow would be, but again, it takes that essential co-operation. I have to know, as House leader, who is speaking next. I have to know how we integrate between the virtual Parliament and, in the hybrid sittings, someone sitting in the House of Assembly. It takes a bit more co-operation. It takes a bit more collaboration. It takes a lot of almost scripting in terms of “Who do you need for question period?” or “Who is going to speak to these bills?”

There is always the question of privilege. Any member can speak at any time, and we have to find the mechanism and means to ensure that can occur.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Minister Coady, if you can just turn your mike a little closer to your mouth, the audio will pick up better for the interpreters. Thank you.

Sorry, I won't take that out of your time, Mr. Nater. Go ahead.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that.

This question is for both the representatives from Newfoundland and Labrador as well as B.C.

I understand in British Columbia, if the news reports are correct, that in addition to people being physically present in the chamber, there will also be committee room space available within your Legislative Assembly building where people could participate by Zoom within the precinct. I just wanted your clarification on that.

To Minister Coady, you mentioned that there would be, I believe, four members sitting in the Speaker's gallery and one in the public gallery. It seems like a relatively small number needed up there. Is that because the floor of your assembly is large enough to accommodate that space?

Those are the two questions for our witnesses. Thank you.

[Mike Farnworth]

Yes, in British Columbia you're going to be able to be in the chamber, in your office in the precinct or in another location. If you're not in the chamber, you'll be participating by Zoom.

We actually did look at potentially using the gallery, but we decided against that.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Just as a quick follow-up, how many members have you determined are able to sit on the floor of your chamber?

[Mike Farnworth]

We have been in discussions with our public health officer. We initially looked at 30, and we have 87 in our chamber. We have decided that it will most likely be about 24, not including the Speaker.

[Mary Polak]

I would add that it is important to recognize that it's only occasionally that all members are present. It is typically for question period or if you're introducing a budget, the throne speech or something like that, so there are limited occasions when members would ordinarily all be present. I think all of us who are part of legislatures understand this. The public doesn't always

We believe, as the opposition, that we can certainly manage that. Some members will simply go back to their offices and be on the floor via Zoom, but again recognizing that they have the privilege to be able to attend if they wish. We think it's eminently manageable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Would you like to add anything, Minister Coady, in just 30 seconds?

[Siobhan Coady]

Certainly.

We have accommodated, within the House of Assembly, as many people as possible. On the floor, we've actually moved from where the normal seating risers are to accommodating six members on the floor where the table officers sit.

There are some in the Speaker's gallery but they will be miked, and there is just one person in the public gallery. They will have their independent mike and be able to participate fully because the key issue here is privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Next is Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here.

Ms. Polak, I'll start with you. You talked in your opening remarks about the need and, it appeared to be, desire of every party within the legislature to come up with a collaborative approach. I took great note of it.

As a member of the opposition, would you say that what is happening is a collaborative approach?

[Mary Polak]

It absolutely is.

As I said in my opening remarks, generally speaking, even beyond the pandemic experience, the three House leaders do have a collaborative relationship. We can go at it hammer and tong in question period, and we do, but as opposition, I recognize that making sure the House functions well is an advantage to the opposition because we can rely on the process.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It's safe to say, as the opposition, that you are fully in agreement that this is a pandemic situation, it's unique and that we need to be looking for other ways of doing business as opposed to just everybody meeting in person in the House. Is that fair to say?

[Mary Polak]

I think you can take this to other levels, but I'm old school and I do think that, to the extent you can, you should be in attendance in person. However, we should certainly exploit technology to advance the participation of individuals who are members in other circumstances and where this might improve their ability to attend.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Especially when it relates to health concerns like we're facing right now....

[Mary Polak]

Yes.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You also talked about the right of every member to participate, and I've heard all of the witnesses on this panel say that. This comes down to that issue of privilege. It's a great guiding principle.

How do you believe, through the collaborative approach that you've taken, that you are actually able to implement that?

[Mary Polak]

That's actually the heart of the whole discussion for all of us.

By trying out how we involve members who are attending virtually, and adjusting our Standing Orders and procedures so that they're able to be recognized when they need to be, they're able to speak on an equal footing with those who are in the chamber. In fact, even in our most recent simulation, question period took place across platforms, so you had members in the chamber asking questions of members who were participating virtually, and vice versa. It was equal—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Sorry, I'm just limited on time.

Were you confident, as a member of the opposition party, that you and all members were able to participate in accordance with that guiding principle of the right of every member to participate?

[Mary Polak]

Yes.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That's excellent.

Ms. Coady, in your opening statement you talked about some of the things you have been exploring, in particular, virtual voting. You talked about the Standing Orders as well. These are the things this committee is tasked with and researching right now so we can come up with our own recommendations. You said you had options for virtual voting, but that no final decisions have been made.

Can you give us some insight into what those options are, and whether there are any preferred ones at this point?

[Siobhan Coady]

As a committee we've met and talked about how important the privilege of voting is. We've talked about different options that may be valid and valuable to members.

We have a relatively small chamber. There are only 40 members in the House of Assembly.

We've broken it down to looking at some procedural voting decisions. When I'm talking procedure, I'm talking about motions to move orders of the day and motions to sit late. These are what I term routine matters. We've looked at how to do that in a virtual or a hybrid model.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

What are some of the solutions you've seen in your examination?

[Siobhan Coady]

We think that we can do that by either raising a hand or a verbal yea or nay. Those are substantive decisions.

For substantive decisions, we absolutely believe that for bills going through particular stages, or a particular decision of the House like a private member's motion, there should be a recorded division.

This is still in debate and discussion, but that's some of the thinking right now.

You've got to remember we've got to make sure everybody has access, there's security, and that we recognize—