Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 12th, 2020

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

That is one of the things we would have to deal with. If I were called away to a community for an emergency, I might not even know there was a vote. I think again of a young man in our riding who was lost and stuck in a vehicle for seven days because there was no connectivity. His cell phone was dead and people kept trying to call. It was just by grace that somebody walked by and saw him stuck in his vehicle in a ditch.

[Harriet Harman]

Oh, yes.

[Harriet Harman]

That's why if you have a hybrid system, you can have a proxy vote. You can choose to have either a remote vote or a proxy vote. Depending on what you're doing that week, you could do either.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much.

That's my time. I appreciate your testimony today very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much.

That wraps up the formal portion of today's meeting.

Thank you, Ms. Harman. We really appreciate your being before the committee today. You have given us a lot to think about, and you have so much experience and a wealth of knowledge to share. I actually did purchase your book after your last appearance, and I learned a lot.

[Harriet Harman]

Thank you very much, and all the best for your absolutely wonderful country at this difficult time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, and we wish you the best as well.

Okay. Unfortunately, as a result of the technical difficulties, we don't have a lot of time, but we can start off with committee business on Tuesday as well.

The one issue is that technically we have to work toward the deadline of June 23 at this point unless the committee decides to ask for another deadline instead. In order to do that, we would have to get agreement from the House leaders. Even if we do propose another deadline, it is by no means guaranteed, until we hear back, that we're going to get it.

That's why I was a little eager in the last meeting to try to see if there was agreement on another deadline instead of the one we have right now. Unless we agree that I can report back to ask for another deadline, we're going to be working toward the June 23 deadline in the meantime.

We do have maybe five minutes if you do want to discuss this situation today. If you want to leave it until Tuesday, we can start off with committee business, but my fear is that we are getting closer and closer without knowing whether we have an extension.

Go ahead, Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, do we still have the motion tabled by Mr. Gerretsen on the table? Can we vote on it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Yes, we do have that motion before us. I do have language from the clerk with which we could propose a more formal motion and insert that date.

Is there agreement to vote on the motion? I believe the proposed date was June 10.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

It was July 10.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

It was July 10. Sorry.

Justin, can we have a vote on that motion?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Madam Chair, first of all, maybe it would be good to have a refresh on what the motion was. I also recall that I and others still wanted to speak to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I don't have a running list from before, Mr. Richards, but you are on that list now. If anyone raises a hand, I can create a running list, and we can start with that list on Tuesday as well. I'll make a note of who wishes to speak.

The last time I think we left off with you, Mr. Richards. I don't know if there was anyone after that.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I feel that perhaps Mr. Duncan may have been, but I can't recall.

Can we start by being refreshed on the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Basically the motion that Mr. Gerretsen raised was to ask for an extension of the report deadline to July 10.

[The Clerk]

Madam Chair, I do have some wording that I can read to the committee with the date that was moved by Mr. Gerretsen.

The motion reads as follows:

That not withstanding the reporting deadline of June 23, 2020, stipulated by the House instructions of May 26, 2020, the committee recommends that it be given an extension until Friday, July 10, 2020, to present a report in relation to its current study on parliamentary duties and the COVID-19 pandemic; and that this recommendation be reported to the House.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Can I ask our clerk a question?

I understand the effect of that motion. Having said that, I'm hearing that we would have to get some agreement from House leaders, and things like that.

Would not a simpler way to deal with this be for the committee to present an interim report indicating that our report will not be completed by June 23 and that we will have one for whenever that date is, July 10, or whenever we decide it is? Would that not have the same effect without having to get agreement? We're just simply reporting back that we don't have anything but we will have it at a later date. Would that not work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Maybe I'll have Justin answer that.

[The Clerk]

Thank you.

Yes, I can confirm that this would be another approach, and in fact somewhat of a parallel approach to this one. What I just read to the committee would ultimately be packaged up as “the report” that PROC would be depositing with the Clerk of the House. The recommendation suggesting a new date would become a recommendation that the House could concur in on its own, or the four House leaders acting in unison could give effect to essentially formalizing a new deadline.

Another approach could be exactly the approach that Mr. Richards has just suggested. It would be an additional recommendation as part of a broader report that may contain other recommendations as well.

I can confirm this approach could be used by the committee, as outlined by Mr. Richards just now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Go ahead, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Yes, thanks. That helps to confirm what I was thinking—

[The Clerk]

Mr. Richards, there is one last point, and this might be the most critical point of all. A report is required to be submitted to the Clerk of the House by the deadline of June 23, the issue being that if the committee goes beyond that date without having provided a report to the Clerk of the House, the committee's authority to report back would have the effect of expiring, essentially meaning that PROC would lose its ability to present a report to the House by way of the Clerk's office.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Understood. I don't think anyone would suggest we do that, but I thought it might be simpler and cleaner just to report back that we require more time. That's fine.

The other part, if you'll indulge this, Madam Chair, is that I still have some comments and thoughts on the way we would proceed if we're choosing to extend our time, which seems as though it may be necessary.

Before we do that, I'd like to get some sense as to what others think. I know I've raised this point, and I believe Mr. Duncan may have been the other person who suggested this as well, and I think also Ms. Blaney. I don't want to put words into either one of their mouths, but that's how I recall it. We were all thinking that it might be wise for us to produce this report, whether it's July 10 or 23, as an interim report and revisit it, I suppose for lack of a better way of putting it, at the end of August or the first part of September. We can determine then whether our recommendations are still appropriate and whether we want to revise, add to or delete from those recommendations, based on what would be the current situation.

There hasn't really been an opportunity to get the thoughts of others on this idea. Personally, I would feel more comfortable knowing other members' thoughts before we proceed with making a decision, because I think that's a fairly critical part of all this. I don't know if we are allowed to hear from others on what their thoughts are on that type of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Justin, do we have any leeway today to hear about thoughts on that, or should we just move it to Tuesday?

[The Clerk]

If there is any leeway, it's literally a matter of minutes, so I'm not sure if that type of discussion could be conducted and concluded in such a brief period of time. It may be something that the committee may want to consider doing at its next meeting.