Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Sept. 28th, 2020

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's what I was going to suggest. I was going to ask why this had to be embedded in the routine motions. Couldn't it be a common courtesy and an informal practice that we agree to, which I think would make perfect sense, that we let people know? If we know we are going to be physically present, we would confirm that we would be there. That way, the clerk could order the amount of food that's appropriate.

If it has to be embedded, I guess it could be just like the 72 hours' notice for written opening statements being submitted. It could be wherever possible or whenever possible.

Those are two options. One, can we just have an informal agreement among us? If it has to be embedded, can we just put the caveat of “whenever possible” in front of it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Go ahead, Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Speaking as somebody who doesn't really partake of our meals at the House—as long as there's coffee and water, I'm good—I think it's on us as adults to inform our whip's office working with our team and let them know whether we're going to be there or not.

The really important stuff is the coffee and water, so I'm good with whatever is done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Go ahead, Mr. Therrien.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

In this day and age of COVID-19, when people are losing their jobs and struggling in every which way, I think we should forget about working meals and let everyone fend for themselves. As the pandemic rages on and we hold virtual meetings, we should lead by example. We should be sending a message that we feel very fortunate to have jobs and that we can buy our own meals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Absolutely. I believe this motion only gives the clerk authorization. It gives him the discretion. The ball is really in his court as to whether he is ordering anything or nothing. We've ordered nothing for the last several months that we've been sitting as a committee virtually, so it's not that it “must” be done or anything like that.

Would anyone like to move a formal motion or an amendment to this motion at this point, or do you want to just leave it as is?

Yes.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have a quick question before that, Madam Chair.

Is what we're doing here with this going to be a precedent for all committees? If it is, then I think it's important. If that's the case, then, I would agree.... I mean, I would agree regardless with what Mr. Therrien just said, but I think it's even more important that we put it in a motion rather than just have an understanding so that we can be sending this message down to the other committees through a precedent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

It's just a message. They still have to move their own routine motions and pass them within each committee, so [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You're muted, Ruby.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

It could serve as an idea for them, or an inspiration, but it doesn't mean they have to do what we have done.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'm happy to move what Mr. Therrien has proposed—unless he wants to move it—to the effect that until such time as the House returns to its normal practices, we discontinue the lunch-purchasing practice. Hopefully, other committees will pick up on that and do the same thing.

What he said is absolutely correct, and I agree 100%.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Go ahead, Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

If I may, this is exactly why I brought this forward. Without clarity, the clerk may feel obligated. As well, it's hybrid, so the clerks won't know how many people will show up. With a lack of clarity it becomes a huge void.

We are the mother committee, so I think our guidance is helpful. Of course, exactly as the chair said, it does not necessarily mean that all the other committees will follow us, but a lack of clarity is often just an area for confusion.

I would be happy to support a motion if Mr. Therrien put it forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Would someone like to formally put this motion forward?

Justin has a comment.

[The Clerk]

Madam Chair, I just wanted to make the point that your point about the discretion that I have as a clerk is true; it's discretionary. The habit of ordering standing catered lunches for PROC was one that came about because there was an interest in doing that when the entire committee was in the same room together. This type of routine motion in the past has also been used occasionally when the committee is meeting in person and sitting late into the evening on a vote marathon, for example, and there is the need to bring food in for the members so they don't have to suspend while they're doing their work. They can continue doing their work and still permit me, after I've been directed to do so, to order in some pizzas or something to allow the committee to continue doing its work.

The motion as it is can be that way. Informally, the arrangement can be changed so that I would only ever order food in when I am directed to do so by the chair, for example. You can also, if you want, change the wording of this motion to explicitly say that—that I would essentially order food in only when I'm explicitly directed to do so by the committee, or by the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I like that idea, because I'm sensing from the clerk that he doesn't like how we're boxing him in. This motion really just allows him the ability to do it. It doesn't mean he has to do it every meeting. I think the suggestion that was just made about adding language saying that—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

But it's not sending the message, and I think that's important.

Was Mr. Therrien about to move a motion before the clerk started talking? I think he was.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I don't think so. I think we were just asking him to move one.

Go ahead, Mr. Therrien.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

I just didn't have time to respond. I could move a motion, but I haven't put anything together yet.

Basically, our position is that, during the pandemic, with Parliament operating under a hybrid model, the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs should suspend catered meals for members who are on site, in the House. If people are hungry, they can ask their assistants to fetch them something to eat and pay for it themselves. That's all.

I move that the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs suspend meal service for those participating in committee meetings in person, for the duration of the pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Not that I'm there to eat any of these meals right now, and I'm likely going to be mostly virtual, but there could be a situation that would require us all to be there in person for some meetings, and I feel the wording of that motion was very absolute. There might not be a place on the Hill to purchase any food. The cafeteria hours may be changed and we may need to authorize the clerk to order, in that circumstance. I feel it's just too rigid. Perhaps a wording that....

At the end of the day, it's up to you. If you've moved it, then I'll obviously have a vote on that, but I just wanted to make that comment so everyone is sure about what they end up voting on before they do.

Go ahead, Mrs. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I think we're getting so lost in the weeds right now that we're not focusing on some really important things. I recognize that we all know that we're out on the job and, just as Mr. Therrien said, it's really important. I think we should just use our common sense hats and until things are over, we just don't order meals. It's that simple. It doesn't have to be a formal motion. It just has to be common sense, that's all.

I recognize that Mark wants to send this as a message down to the rest of the committees. We shouldn't have to tell the other members of Parliament to use common sense; it should just be a good practice as we're going through this pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I agree. That would probably be my preference, but we could still send a message. We could still do it, with less harsh language. I think we can do what the clerk suggested earlier: Unless the committee or the chair requests the clerk to do so, we don't have meals until that time. Something like that would be a bit less rigid.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Let's just move on, Madam Chair, if we can.

[The Clerk]

Madam Chair, I apologize for belabouring it again. As of right now, if the motion that's in the list isn't adopted, I have no authority to order any meal at all, which I think would be the effect that the committee is looking for. The option could essentially be to simply not adopt this motion and I wouldn't be authorized to order any food—you'd all be left to your own devices to bring a meal or to prepare and bring food with you when you do come to committee, if that's what you needed—as opposed to moving a separate motion indicating that no food will be provided during the pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Yes, that is a very good point.

We have Mr. Turnbull, and then Mr. Gerretsen.