Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you have anything like a standing request in place to provincial health officials to notify you at any point if the situation in their jurisdiction gets to the point that they feel their public health orders might substantially interfere with the discharge of an election?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Unfortunately, we do not have that, though, as I said, we have connections through the Public Health Agency of Canada and there is ongoing engagement. We have a sense of the evolution, but things can happen fairly quickly. We have to accept that we may not get much notice. If things change and health authorities feel they need to intervene, it may be at the last minute.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I'm looking to hear from you that you won't be waiting until there is an election. We're seeing lockdowns now. I'm wondering if that outreach could happen now so that lockdowns don't come and go, when public health officials might have given advice to say, “We don't think you could actually safely hold an election right now.” Then, once the lockdown is over, that advice is never issued so we won't know that we got to that point. It was never on their radar because the question wasn't asked.

I'm just looking for some reassurance from you that you might be asking that question so that we can learn from some of the lockdowns in place that are happening now, in terms of what their consequences would be if a similar situation were to occur within the window of a federal election.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Blaikie. That's all the time we have.

We went over a little while ago, but I wanted you to finish your thought.

Mr. Tochor, you're next for five minutes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

No, it's me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I'm sorry. You're next, Todd.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you.

I want to go back to the line of questioning that Mr. Blaikie and Mr. Gerretsen brought in. Clearly, we're moving down a path where the provinces are seeing increased numbers. I've said before, and it's been repeated a number of times, there is real concern. I think, Mr. Perrault, you said the same: You want to make sure Canadians can actually exercise their democratic right to vote.

If voting in person were not a safe option for Canadians, wouldn't it be irresponsible to conduct a federal election? I understand that it's a hard question to put to you, but to both Mr. Gerretsen and Mr. Blaikie's point, at what point do we advise those above you that this is not a good idea?

[Stéphane Perrault]

As I think I said in perhaps my last appearance, we have a regime that contemplates a range of voting options. I do not foresee a federal election where there is only vote by mail. That, to me, is not what the regime contemplates. The regime contemplates the main option being voting in person—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Yes, but how can you say that with—

[Stéphane Perrault]

Let me finish. If there is a situation in a district where I cannot have poll workers and where voters cannot go to the polls, I think this dramatic scenario is one where I could invoke the power to make a recommendation to the Governor in Council to cancel the election.

Now, that said, this is an extreme scenario. We've seen in previous lockdowns that Canadians were allowed to go, for example, to grocery stores, and that there were ways to allow voting in person. However, should health authorities feel that in-person voting is not possible, then I do not see an election in that particular location.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay.

On that, I'll go back to the mail-in ballots question and ensuring that the vote is received. Ballots are bar-coded, are they not?

[Stéphane Perrault]

They are, but it's not the ballot itself. The outer envelope is coded.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Is there not a system in place right now, so you're not recreating the wheel, that the ballot itself could be bar-coded? Then electors could log on to whatever system. It should be fairly easy, I would think, to implement. Many online services and courier groups have this. It could say your vote was received and could provide that assurance to Canadians.

Again, that just builds more of a robust mail-in opportunity for Canadians.

[Stéphane Perrault]

My answer is that I'd love to do that, and we will be looking at that, but right now my priority is putting together the building blocks of a mail-in system that can handle five million. I think this is, in the order of priority, something that we'll get to at some point. I certainly endorse the benefits of that, but I can't commit to that.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay.

You've spoken a couple of times now on the identification requirements for those who are doing their mail-in ballots. Is that not discretionary? I mean, what are the identification requirements? Bill C-76 came through, and I believe some of that made those identification requirements discretionary.

[Stéphane Perrault]

Bill C-76 has not changed that, but it's a very good point. If you vote in person, there's no latitude in the act. I can prescribe the documents, but you have to provide the documents to vote. That's in-person voting. If you vote by mail, the law gives me the authority to establish the means of identification that I deem to be sufficient. I do have on the vote-by-mail system a greater flexibility.

We don't necessarily want a system where one way of voting has a certain degree of integrity and the other one has it to a lesser degree.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Right.

[Stéphane Perrault]

This is why if you vote by mail, I require documents. However, we have a situation where we have people in long-term care facilities. When you think about it, most of them waited for more than two years to get there. They are now confined in those places. We know who they are. They're not going anywhere, so why would we want to have them upload documents—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

No, I agree.

[Stéphane Perrault]

What I'm saying is that there are spots in the country where there are problems and we need to be more flexible.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I'm focusing more on the five million mail-in votes and the three million Canadians who live abroad. How do we do that given the circumstances we're in?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

I believe Mr. Alghabra and Dr. Duncan will be sharing their five-minute slot. This will be the last slot.

Go ahead, Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Perrault, in our discussions with provincial returning officers—and I can't remember which province it was, either B.C. or Saskatchewan—we heard a returning officer had set up an advisory group made up of other parties, given the nature of having an election in a pandemic. It was consulted on a regular basis about changes that may be required.

How do you feel about doing the same for a federal election?

[Stéphane Perrault]

We have that in place. It's in the legislation as well. We meet fairly regularly with the advisory committee of political parties.

We met late in the fall and showed some of the plans for a fall election, should there be a fall election, including protective measures. We are in the process of sending out invitations, which may be getting sent as we speak, for a late January meeting to see how the situation has evolved and whether legislation is coming, and to have discussions about the measures in place.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

That's good to know.

We are hoping to invite Canada Post before us to continue our study. Are there any questions you'd like us to ask them that you're curious about? We would be happy to pose those questions to Canada Post. We will have our own questions, but certainly our intent is to make sure they have the right capacity to do this job.