Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 15 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. The committee is now sitting in hybrid format, meaning that members can participate either in person or by video conference. Witnesses must participate by video conference. All members are counted for the purposes of quorum regardless of their method of participation.

Today's proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. I will remind you that the webcast will only show the person speaking rather than the entire committee. To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow for those participating virtually.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either the floor, English or French. To speak, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike—something I forgot at the beginning of this meeting already today. We'll always give you a reminder if needed. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize any interference; it's not done automatically.

All comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Members, should you need to request the floor outside of your designated time for questions, you should activate your mike and state that you have a point of order. If you wish to intervene on a point of order that has been raised by another member, you should use the “raise hand” function. This will signal to me your interest to speak. However, if you are appearing in person, please raise your hand, and the clerk will inform me of the order. We will try to keep a consolidated list.

I also remind you to speak slowly, especially all of the witnesses. Please speak as slowly and clearly as possible. Interpretation services need to be able to follow along.

For everyone participating, it is mandatory to wear a headset with a boom mike. Please let me know if there is any difficulty with regard to your having one right now. If you are on the precinct premises, we could probably arrange for you to get one. Let us know if there are any problems. If any technical issues arise, please try to contact the clerk or the chair as soon as possible via email or phone so that we can look after that technical difficulty and suspend if needed in the meantime so that everyone can participate fully.

With that said, we can begin this meeting. We do have a three-hour meeting planned for today, so this is just a reminder right at the onset that we have two panels of witnesses and then we will consider the draft report in camera. There was also a question raised last time during the discussion of our report, and I will have a ruling on that question. That will be provided during draft report section, the third hour of our meeting today.

Let's begin with our amazing witnesses, who have been to PROC before. We have, from Open Democracy Project, Sabreena Delhon; and from CIVIX, we have Taylor Gunn.

Welcome to today's meeting.

We can start with Ms. Delhon.

[Sabreena Delhon, Open Democracy Fellow, DemocracyXChange, Open Democracy Project]

Thank you for the invitation to speak with you today. This is my first time at PROC, so it's a real privilege.

The pandemic has re-engaged Canadians. During this extended emergency, 36% are now more confident in Canada’s institutions. Trust in one another and the government has also gone up. This positivity during a tremendously difficult time indicates that Canadians can be asked to take on a challenge, and should be given a more central role in designing the post-pandemic society. To do so, they will need more mechanisms to contribute. Strengthened community ties, clear messaging and flexibility with election administration can make the difference.

My name is Sabreena Delhon, I am the open democracy fellow with the SFU Morris J. Wosk Centre for Dialogue, Open Democracy Project and Massey College. I'm here on behalf of DemocracyXChange, which is Canada’s annual democracy summit.

The following recommendations have been informed by the DemocracyXChange community, current research about democratic engagement and the understanding that the health and safety of Canadians exercising their right to vote is paramount to a strong democracy. This material has also been shaped by the fact that the pandemic has had a disproportionate impact on low-income and racialized communities, long-term care home residents, front-line workers and incarcerated individuals. Across these categories, women are bearing the brunt of adverse outcomes. These groups are also most likely to face barriers to casting a ballot.

I'd like to acknowledge the recent “Special Report of the Chief Electoral Officer”. It presents a range of measures to effectively administer an election during a pandemic. These include increasing the number of voting days, holding the election over a weekend and preparing for a major increase in mail-in ballots. We enthusiastically support approaches that will provide a safe and efficient experience for voters.

Now, our recommendations. First, work with a range of community-based organizations that focus on engaging voters over specific issues or demographic variables. The work of groups like Future Majority and The Canadian Muslim Vote are of note here. These groups can help to prepare people for the experience of voting and the process of obtaining and submitting a mail-in ballot and can also help to manage expectations related to the counting process. These groups can also reinforce messaging related to physical distancing and other precautions.

We know that the pandemic has affected different groups in different ways. For instance, students may not be able to vote on campus, so they will require targeted outreach to clarify where to vote and how. Coordinating with community groups, non-profits and other entities will be key to disseminating crucial information about process and precaution to distinct populations.

Throughout the pandemic, community organizers have demonstrated incredible ingenuity. Their knowledge and relationships are key to connecting people in a manner that makes voting relevant and appealing. Organizations like Apathy is Boring and Democratic Engagement Exchange can serve as a bridge between innovative community groups and the electoral process.

We understand that Elections Canada hires community relations officers for this outreach function. We advise that officers be hired well in advance of the writ period so that outreach to stakeholders can be actioned quickly. We feel this is foundational to ensuring engagement and that it would be worth making legislative adjustments to accommodate.

Second, ensure that key messages acknowledge realistic fears and emphasize that voting is easy and safe. It is critical to counter the American narrative that registering to vote and voting are onerous. Research shows that first-time and frequent voters overestimate how difficult and time consuming the voting process is. The fact is, for the vast majority of eligible voters, it is very easy. This needs to be conveyed clearly, along with the fact that there are different ways to vote to suit your needs and circumstances. Another point is to emphasize the identity of being a voter above the act of voting. Research has shown that this has a positive effect on engagement. This can be built upon by calling or texting individuals to support the creation of a voting plan.

Third, consider lowering the voting age from 18 to 16, and making voting part of the secondary school curriculum. This demographic is highly engaged in social issues but feels disconnected from traditional forms of democratic engagement. As the pandemic will have a considerable impact on future generations, their input going forward should be harnessed.

We are willing to partner to help support a safe, effective and inclusive election should the committee see a role for us.

Thank you very much for your attention, and I’m pleased to answer any questions you might have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much, Sabreena.

Taylor Gunn, you have five minutes, please.

[Taylor Gunn, President and Chief Election Officer, CIVIX]

Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for letting me be here today.

Could you please refer to the email that was distributed by Justin this morning? It would be beneficial to you in this conversation if you had it on screen.

While you dig it up, I might just say that I was walking to school today with a five-year-old and a seven-year old. I informed them that I would have the ears of parliamentarians this morning, and asked them what they might share. The five-year old was hoping you could create a safe Canada. The seven-year-old was hoping you could do a price freeze on Pokémon cards, to one dollar.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I have a seven-year-old who collects Pokémon as well, and he would appreciate that. I never thought that was within my power, but now that you indicate that, I'm definitely going to try.

[Taylor Gunn]

I've heard it's a global pandemic, so you never know what power you have in your hands right now.

I will be flying through these slides. I've apologized in advance to the translators.

CIVIX is a national non-partisan, charitable organization working to develop the habits and skills of citizenship within students under the voting age. As it is probably most relevant today, I'll really focus on Student Vote. You'll see in the slides why I think that program is relevant for our discussions.

Turning to the second slide, just as quick background, Student Vote is a parallel election for students under the voting age that parallels official election periods. We've conducted that now for 18 years, for somewhere in the range of 50 levels of elections across Canada—municipal, provincial, territorial and federal. In the recent federal election, we had, I think it's fair to round, just under 10,000 schools register across Canada, with about 30 votes shy of 1.2 million student ballots cast. We use the currency of direct participation, not reach, because if I used reach, I could inform you, with tallied media hits and all that stuff, that we supposedly reached 350 million Canadians in the last election—of which there aren't—so let's go with direct participants.

In the third slide you'll see our geographic spread. I point this out because it's interesting to note that if we include all provinces and territories, we were in 63% of all schools across Canada. If we exclude our lowest jurisdiction, which is Quebec—I can talk about that later, if someone is interested—our average would increase to 70% of all schools in the country. I believe we are on par with matching or surpassing the number of schools that take part in the Terry Fox Run across Canada. I don't know of anyone else who's in more schools. That's fantastic for our democracy.

If you look at the map, you will see a visual display of the lovely democratic pressure we're putting from the north on the United States. Then there's something that anyone who's into politics likes—the results of our federal election in 2019. In terms of the turnout results, it's interesting to note the similarities and the differences on a national level. I'm happy to take questions on that.

In the next slide, you'll see something that you might very interesting—that is, how you fared in Student Vote in 2019. The member of the committee with the most number of schools registered in their jurisdiction is Mr. Lukiwski, who had 47 schools register. I don't know if he's here today.

Actually, you know what? I'm sorry; it was Mr. Doherty. I don't think he's here today either. He had 55 schools registered.

You'll see that in some of your jurisdictions, you'll have as many as just under 8,000 kids participate.

In the next slide you can see the national voting trends of the Student Vote participants over the last number of years. I put this out as valuable just because a lot of groups that are working on what you may call “youth civic engagement” are generalized as being on either the centre or the left. What's interesting to point out here is that other than one election of the last six federal elections, the Conservative Party of Canada obtains the most student votes in the raw ballot count across the country. It's just an interesting thing to point out. We're a non-partisan organization, and I don't like us to be generalized as centre or left or anywhere on the political spectrum.

If you were in our position, and you could reach 1.2 million students under the voting age from nearly 10,000 schools across Canada in the last federal election, I think you'd want to have an understanding of what you were actually aiming for, right? A couple of clues were given to us from previous reports put out by Elections Canada—at least, in this case, the 2011 and 2015 federal elections—from the national youth survey. What it did was draw a picture of what characteristics a young voter has. They have characteristics of being interested in the democratic or political process; being knowledgeable; thinking that voting and participating is a civic duty; talking with their family and friends, or being influenced by their family and friends, or having friends that could even influence them in the political process....

Ruby, I see your hand up. I might as well try to respond there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I was just asking you to please wrap up. The time is up and we'd like to get to the questions. I know the members are eager.

[Taylor Gunn]

If you're comfortable, I'll just take 30 seconds. Is that okay?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's perfect. Thank you.

[Taylor Gunn]

Thank you.

What you also find that those who participate are more likely to have learned about democracy in school and to have participated in a parallel or mock election. You'll see in the following slides those characteristics of young voters; we cause those among our student participants during federal elections and, we presume, at the other levels of elections as well.

Then, very interestingly, from the third evaluation that was conducted on Student Vote by Elections Canada, we found that 28% of parents reported that their children's participation in Student Vote positively impacted their decision to vote in the election.

Finally, just out of interest, because I hope that all or most of us are proud Canadians, we have now expanded this outside of Canada to Colombia, where in last year's municipal elections in five different regions, we had 76,000 kids participate.

I put all this information out because that sets the stage for me to be able respond to questions that I hope can make us useful at today's appearance.

Thank you very much, everybody.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Gunn and Ms. Delhon.

I think everyone here is a proud Canadian. I can bet on that.

Thank you for your testimony today.

We'll start our six-minute rounds with Ms. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much, and thank you, Ruby.

I really want to focus on civics. Thank you very much for coming here, Taylor. I really appreciate your goals and what you're trying to do within the communities and their high schools.

I am a proud mother of five. I remember my son coming home last year after Student Vote, which they did for the 2019 election at his high school, so I know that it was done there as well.

I'm just wondering about this. What are some of the techniques you use to get into the high schools? Also, on the information that is received, when it comes to the curriculum and things, who do you work with and where does that get approved? Can you give me a bit more background on that?

[Taylor Gunn]

Sure. I can. Also, I might, through some of these answers, bring it back to some of the things that I think might be useful for the purposes of this committee.

There are probably a few things that are most relative to our success in growing our school numbers across Canada. Fixed election dates really help. I know that's not under the control of the committee, but that's very useful for us.

Working in schools over the last 18 years with our level of service to educators has been the best way to develop our credibility. I don't know how you might treat this if you want to, but we've never actually gone and asked anyone for their permission. We didn't do that on purpose, because we were worried that if we did it in the early days, we might have someone say no. Now what we do is congratulate school boards and schools across the country for their participation. We've found that many boards or districts are very happy with that—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Taylor, thank you very much. I just want to look at the curriculum, though, because this is one thing I'm very concerned with. I have been fortunate to work with our former member of Parliament. I'll be honest. I'm the only non-educator in my family. I'm related to a heck of a lot of them.

I'm just wondering. I'm looking at the curriculum and I'm trying to figure it out, because I have gone into schools where I just sit there and go, “This is what you're teaching them?” There was one time more recently when they were teaching that there are 308 members of Parliament. Well, we know that it hasn't been at that number for some time. There are just small things like that.

I'm looking at the curriculum specifically and at what type of information the children are receiving and making sure that it's actually accurate.

[Taylor Gunn]

Yes. I can table that. You can also, I believe, go to some of our most recent curricula, which are posted on the studentvote.ca website. I don't believe we've ever had any criticisms about the accuracy of our curriculum.

We remake that in concert with teachers in advance of every election. In the case of federal elections, that is done with the co-operation and support of Elections Canada. I believe that everything in our curriculum is factual.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Excellent.

On the information that's provided, when students are making their choices on the votes, what are some of the mechanisms you use to teach the children about what are the policies and platforms? What do you look at so that it is part of the curriculum when you're sharing this?

[Taylor Gunn]

What we do is provide a set of suggested activities and lessons whereby students can find, determine and explore the policies and platforms on their own. What we don't do is teach the policies and platforms. We feel that as a non-partisan organization you can get yourself into some tricky waters doing that, and that's one of the things we have stood by for the last 18 years.

Another big thing we do, much more outwardly now than we did in the beginning, is attempt to facilitate conversations between students and their parents. What we have found over the years is that parents then can feel that they can have an influence on the development of their own children's political perspectives.

I can table a document, and either you could go through it in detail or I'd be happy to follow up in detail—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That would be awesome.

I just think that when we have their eyes and ears, it's really important that they're getting the most accurate information possible. I know that some school boards have policies that do not allow politicians to go to speak to classrooms of students. What are your feelings on that? That's something that I don't think anyone understands—a parliamentarian's life—until they are actually walking in those shoes or are, perhaps, maybe a family member. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

[Taylor Gunn]

I think that.... Remember, I would like us to be friends and allies of the school boards, so I'm not going to criticize anyone in the education system today. We're aware of that, and there are certain jurisdictions that are stricter or direct on not having politicians come into schools than they have been in the past.

One of the things that we created a few years ago was a program called Rep Day. What we try to do is help members of Parliament get into schools that we're aware of having expressed interest to us to meet and have a discussion with their member of Parliament. What we found is really interesting and kind of sad, but we're working on fixing that disconnect between.... Teachers wanted parliamentarians to come into schools to explain their role first-hand, and even for their kids to ask difficult questions on current issues. Remember, our whole rationale here is that you're learning real issues in real time. I mean, hearing directly from parliamentarians is exactly that, and in school is the perfect place for this. There are some parliamentarians—and I think they're learning—who go in with a very partisan angle. We try to suggest to them that this might not get them invited back and that it may not be the way to approach something like this. On the other side, what we found is that members of Parliament want to be in schools, but they're not getting invitations from teachers.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Taylor, thanks very much. I know my time is up, but I just want to say thank you very much.

I'm really fortunate where I live—maybe it's because I'm related to them all. I have had no difficulties, but I do know that many people have, and that's a concern.

Thank you.

[Taylor Gunn]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Absolutely, I can relate to this conversation. I do get invited in. I find it's the teachers who want us in, but the board has a lot of barriers and makes it quite difficult.

I can see from the numbers.... Mr. Alghabra and I, being from the Peel region, have the same board, and we do have fewer schools participating, it seems, in the program. However, I did find that, during election periods in the past, those students who had participated in your student vote program were really interested in the election process and couldn't wait to vote when they got older. It's very motivating for them.

Mr. Turnbull, you have six minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses. I really just want to say thank you for the work you do. I think it's essential to a thriving democracy, and I really appreciate both of your organizations and the incredible work that you're doing to engage all types of voters.

Ms. Delhon, I'm going to start with you. I'm really going to try to focus the discussion on a pandemic election, which, of course, we hope doesn't actually become a reality but is always a possibility in a minority setting.

I know that your organization is doing incredible work, and you made some recommendations in your opening remarks that I thought were quite good. I really appreciate the point you made at the very beginning about voters or members of the public being more engaged in designing the post-pandemic society. I really appreciate that point.

In terms of community-based organizations like yourself—and you listed quite a few others—how can they help? You listed a few ways in which they can help. Maybe you could go a little bit more in depth there, but I'm more interested in a pandemic setting. How do we essentially coordinate with organizations like yourself, like The Canadian Muslim Vote? I think you mentioned Apathy is Boring, which is a great organization as well. Can you tell us about what that would ideally look like in a pandemic setting? Obviously, that creates some challenges.

[Sabreena Delhon]

What I would recommend is looking at other regions, and I understand the committee is doing this for case studies. I spoke with Elections BC in preparing for this meeting, and they noted that stakeholder outreach in preparing for the huge volume of mail-in ballots was a critical part of their pandemic election strategy. Fortunately, there are some case studies to draw key lessons from.

In terms of operationalizing this highly coordinated approach with community groups and non-profits, I mentioned Apathy is Boring and the Democratic Engagement Exchange as bridge organizations. At DemocracyXChange, we are a coalition of different groups, academic, non-profit and community groups, including the Toronto Public Library, which is part of our group as well. We are all well positioned to help connect with these bridge organizations and then also to help to raise or amplify the connection that is available through groups like libraries and community organizations in particular.

I just want to note that at DemocracyXChange, we held our third annual summit in October. Normally we meet in person, but just like everybody else, we had to shift to an all-virtual undertaking this year during the pandemic. We had over 700 people participate in our three-day, virtual summit, and I don't think we could have imagined anybody doing that a year ago or eight months ago, so I understand your point about that coordination and connection piece being a really critical one and needing to operationalize that.

I just want to highlight the interest and appetite for that democratic engagement and also to highlight that, among those 700 participants, we had people who simply identified as citizens, so it wasn't necessarily people who do democracy for a living, but that we were open to the general public.

Among our registrants we also had academics, community organizers, students and members of the corporate, government and non-profit sectors. It's across those arenas that this outreach function needs to be mobilized. I mentioned the point that outreach officers are also available, but these non-profit groups and community groups such as The Canadian Muslim Vote, for instance, have mobilized during the pandemic to support their communities in different ways. That infrastructure is already in place to disseminate messages about how to effectively participate in a pandemic election. Again, we'll note that we're happy to assist with that stakeholder planning piece too.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's great. I noticed that you mentioned community relations officers. Do you think that more capacity is needed there in a pandemic context? Should the outreach efforts of Elections Canada be heightened or increased by having more community relations officers?