Evidence of meeting #24 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prorogue.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
Okay. Thanks very much.
Starting with that, I will quote from that once again, where you said that “the real reason for the prorogation was the WE scandal”.
Since we are tasked with reviewing the government's reasons for prorogation, does it make sense that this committee should hear from these types of witnesses?
11:50 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Absolutely, and I would go back and revisit some of the testimony that had previously been done around the WE scandal with the Kielburger brothers. If you watched their interviews on the The Fifth Estate a couple of weeks ago, I think you might get very different testimony from what they delivered back in July.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
You're absolutely right, Dr. Bratt. I have watched it and I totally agree. I paid attention to it, and you do see the story change and become a bit more open on some of the feedback on that.
In addition to the Kielburgers, are there any others? We've mentioned that the Prime Minister should be coming here.
Do Dr. Bratt and Professor Taillon agree that the Prime Minister should be here? Yes or no?
11:50 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Yes.
11:50 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
I would agree, and Katie Telford as well, and many of the other same witnesses you had around WE.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
We're looking at WE. Would you include Speakers' Spotlight and the people who organized the Speakers' Spotlight and have the information showing who was paid, which members of the Trudeau family were paid during this time with WE?
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Yes. I think that's an important aspect. I don't think it's the only one. I mean—
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
That was a big revelation when we found out that Justin Trudeau's mother and brother were being paid, but even before that, people had to have known—and should have known—about the very close connection between Trudeau and the WE Charity. I think it's less about the money than about how closely they were connected.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
Absolutely, so as we're studying prorogation, it's not just about the Prime Minister and his final say, but we should probably investigate a little further. That's what I'm hearing from you, Dr. Bratt.
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Yes, because, in my view, that's the reason for the prorogation. You're going to have to dig deeper into figuring out why they wanted to delay and change the channel.
Quite frankly, I think prorogation worked in that respect. It did change the channel. We've only been talking about WE in the last couple of weeks, but throughout the fall of 2020 it did move off the pages.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
It sure did. I know that just the other day we heard from Pablo, who is our House leader for the government. The Liberals said they weren't filibustering, but we saw that in so many of our committees, the moment you brought up WE, everyone became a little bit prickly and did not want to go there again. They wanted to close that door.
I know that others have an idea that well, you know, that was months ago. Well, it's months ago, but unfortunately, I think it may be a pattern that we're seeing under this Prime Minister, and that's very concerning.
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
It might be tougher to do, but I would love to see Bill Morneau back.
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
He is a private citizen now, but he resigned in between, so what was the link...? I would think a finance minister would love to be involved in dealing with resetting the Canadian economy and the finances after hundreds of billions of dollars of spending. This would not be the time to leave unless the Prime Minister had no confidence in you.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
Absolutely. I think that we all saw that, unfortunately, on August 17. We saw that division of a very long-standing friendship that was gone.
We've continued to ask the Prime Minister; Katie Telford, the chief of staff; Mr. Morneau; Bardish Chagger and some other important people to testify. What should we do next if they do say no? Members of Parliament have the prerogative to say no. What should we be doing next?
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
I'm not sure what you can do to force them in there outside of identifying that they were requested and chose not to appear.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
Okay. Is summoning the other witnesses a possibility?
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Political Science, Mount Royal University, As an Individual
Keep doing that. More information is better.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
Okay. That's exactly what I want to look at.
Professor Taillon, do you believe it's also important to have the Kielburgers and other witnesses on here to show the link between prorogation and the scandal? What are your feelings on that?
11:55 a.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, Laval University, As an Individual
What happened with the WE Charity matters. Parliament would do well to see the investigation through. Members of Parliament have the tools to initiate a new investigation, if need be.
That said, I am not so sure it's necessary to redirect the committee's focus and turn a study on the reasons for prorogation into a second investigation. It's a better idea to follow up on the matter and undertake a proper investigation, as was done previously.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to both the witnesses for being here today and sharing your perspective. It's greatly appreciated.
Professor Bratt, I'll start with you. I want to ask you a point-blank question to get a short answer response if possible. Would you expect a government to abandon its values and priorities because of a pandemic?
