Evidence of meeting #3 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was study.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Justin Vaive
Andre Barnes  Committee Researcher

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number three of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

I'd like to start the meeting by providing you with some information. This is especially for the new members.

The committee is now sitting in a hybrid format. You can participate in person or by video conference. Witnesses must always appear by video conference. All members, regardless of their method of participation, will be counted for the purpose of quorum. The committee's power to sit is limited, however, by the priority use of House resources, which is determined by the whips. All questions must be decided by a recorded vote, unless the committee disposes of them by unanimous consent or on division. Finally, the committee may deliberate in camera, provided it takes into account the potential risks to confidentiality inherent in such deliberations with remote participants.

Today’s meeting will be made available via the House of Commons website. As a reminder, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules for everyone to follow.

For those participating virtually, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice of English, French or the floor at the bottom of your screen.

Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize any interference. As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Should members need to request the floor outside your designated time for questions, you should activate your mike and state that you have a point of order. If members wish to intervene on a point of order that has already been raised by another member, you should use the “raise hand” function. This will signal to the chair your interest to speak and create a speakers list. To do so, you should click on “participants” at the bottom of your screen and click on the “raise hand” function.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. Unless there are exceptional circumstances, the use of headsets with a boom microphone is mandatory for everyone participating remotely.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise the chair. Please note that we may need to suspend for a few minutes as we resolve those technical difficulties to ensure that members are able to participate fully.

For those participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Should you wish to get my attention, signal me with a hand gesture, or at an appropriate time, call out my name. Should you wish to raise a point of order, wait for an appropriate time, and then clearly indicate to me that you wish to raise a point of order.

With regard to the speakers list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or remotely.

Today I'd like to start by welcoming a new member to our team. Mr. Daniel Blaikie will be joining us permanently, I believe. He will be replacing Ms. Blaney who will be missed, of course. I had a conversation with her yesterday. She also said that she will miss being on this committee. At a future time we may have her back; time will tell, I guess.

We were very busy in the first couple of meetings—I'll put it that way—and weren't able to do proper introductions of our wonderful clerk and our analyst. A new analyst has joined the team. I was hoping that they could perhaps introduce themselves to the members properly.

I apologize for not being able to take the time to do this at the last meeting because we had to get into committee business.

We will start with Mr. Justin Vaive.

Please introduce yourself to the committee and then have the analysts do so as well.

11:05 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Justin Vaive

Hello, everyone. I'm the clerk of the committee. I have been the clerk of the PROC committee since the beginning of this Parliament, so I'm now into my second session with the PROC committee.

11:10 a.m.

Andre Barnes Committee Researcher

I work for the Library of Parliament and have been on PROC since 2010. I'm looking forward to this new session.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

He has a lot of experience.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Excellent.

I have a point of order.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

Yes, go ahead.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Thanks very much, Ruby.

I have been sitting on a few other committees, and one of the concerns I have is the speaking list. I know it's very difficult when we're holding meetings in hybrid style. Seeing what's happening in the room versus what's happening on the screens, I am wondering what the mode will be when it comes to making sure.... Who is going to be drawing together that speakers list and moving forward from that?

I have seen from other committees that there have been a few issues, and I want to address that to see how we will be proceeding with the speakers list.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

At the beginning of the meeting, I mentioned that the clerk and I will be maintaining a consolidated list. That will include that we are going to monitor the hands. I have my screen open to see how the hands go up virtually and the order of those who speak in the room.

Of course, just like you raised a point of order, you can always unmute your mike and raise a point of order.

The clerk and I are in constant communication throughout the meeting; we have a method through which to communicate. If he sees that I may have missed somebody, or somebody else is to be sandwiched into the order, then he lets me know immediately and I follow the advice of the clerk for that order.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Thank you very much.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

We will continue with the introduction of our new member to the analyst team.

11:10 a.m.

Laurence Brosseau Analyst

Hello, my name is Laurence Brosseau.

I have been working at the Library of Parliament for three years now. I have worked on several committees, both on the House and Senate sides. I am pleased to join the team at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs as an analyst.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

Laurence, thank you so much for being a part of this team. I know that everyone has seen you work on other committees, but we're really pleased to have you aboard and our committee looks forward to working with you.

11:10 a.m.

Analyst

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

Moving on to committee business, we have a few notices of motions that have been given to this committee. We have three motions on notice, including one that was just put on notice this morning. On the order of those motions right now, one is from Ms. Petitpas Taylor, and two are from Ms. Blaney. Since Ms. Blaney at this point is no longer a member of this committee, those two are going to be considered null and void at this time.

I want to mention, though, that one of her motions talked about a study of election ideas or an election during the pandemic. I did have an opportunity to speak with the Chief Electoral Officer last week in reference to the report that Elections Canada has submitted to the House of Commons, which is entitled “Special Report of the Chief Electoral Officer: Administering an Election during the COVID-19 Pandemic”. This report has been circulated to all members of the committee.

Essentially, it's a 27-page report—at least in the English version—and it makes three different recommendations. In my conversation with the Chief Electoral Officer, he was extremely eager to come before this committee to give us his thoughts on the report and to allow us to ask him any questions that we may have regarding the report or elections in the future. The reason he is so eager is that we're in a minority government situation—and I guess I don't need to really explain that—so they need to prepare, and oftentimes they need to prepare a lot sooner than we would think. They need to start getting the wheels in motion. Allowing him to have some insight into what our thoughts on this committee may be would really help form their perspective as to direction.

He's really ready to come in, and regardless of what study we move forward with or what the committee decides today, it's oftentimes very difficult to get witnesses in on a last-minute notice. I wanted to let you know that he is willing to come in Thursday if we were to move on a study related to that, but right now we do have Madam Petitpas Taylor's motion on the floor.

I see that we have some hands up, so I guess I'll put it out to you as to what direction the committee would like to move in.

We have Mr. Turnbull and then Mr. Blaikie.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I welcome Daniel Blaikie. We're glad to have you.

I put a notice of motion in just before the meeting. I worked on it late last night. It borrows a bit from Rachel Blaney's motion, which would be null and void.

The wording has been slightly adjusted, but I'd like to read it into the record and then maybe give a short synopsis of why I think this should be the priority for this committee, if that's okay.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

Yes.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Here's the motion. I think Justin distributed it about 30 minutes before the meeting, roughly speaking. I'll just read the English. My French is horrible—my apologies—so I'll read it in English.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

Go ahead, Mr. Doherty.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

I apologize to Mr. Turnbull. I have a question.

Before he gets into his motion, I want clarification on the comment regarding Ms. Blaney's motions being null and void. It is my understanding that once a motion has been tabled, regardless of the person's being on the committee or not, it is the committee's business. It's the committee's business to do whatever they so choose with it. Another member of the committee who is still on the committee can then choose it, or the committee itself could then vote and say, yes, we still have those three motions here although that member is no longer part of this committee. If it is the committee's will, they can still choose to adopt that motion. It doesn't just arbitrarily become null and void.

I believe it is the committee's business to be able to do that. Through you, Madam Chair, I was wondering if we could get clarification from the clerk procedurally.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

I sought clarification before this meeting. Maybe I should give a more fulsome explanation. My apologies for that.

Since the motion that was adopted in the House changed the PROC membership by replacing Ms. Blaney with Mr. Blaikie, the notices of motion standing in Ms. Blaney's name are null and void, but should another member wish to have her motions considered, new notice would have to be given unless the committee is prepared to waive the notice requirement.

Mr. Blaikie is next up to speak as well. I'm assuming there would be some interest in reviving the subject matter of Ms. Blaney's motion. Of course, any other committee members are free to do that, as well.

Mr. Clerk.

11:15 a.m.

The Clerk

Madam Chair, for the benefit of the members, I wish to underscore the distinction between motions that have been moved, which, as Mr. Doherty rightly stated, are then the property of the committee.... Consideration of those can be continued, and then ultimately voted upon.

In the case of the two notices of motion that were received from Ms. Blaney, they were only notices of motion. They hadn't yet been moved. House of Commons Procedure and Practice states at page 1062, “Notices of motions issued by a Member who is no longer a member of a committee become moot.”

In this case, if there is someone on the committee who would like to re-offer those notices of motion from Ms. Blaney, they can do so. As the chair has indicated, they would then go through a 48-hour notice period, just as any substantive motion would, unless there were unanimous consent of the committee to proceed immediately. It's in the hands of the committee.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

On that same point of order, Madam Chair.

You will forgive me as a new member of the committee, who is not exactly familiar with all the routine motions that have just passed recently. I know that on other committees the notice requirement stands unless there is a substantive motion that pertains directly to the business before the committee.

In this case, if were discussing committee business, it seems to me that unless that rule doesn't apply, it would be in order for any one member of the committee to re-move the motion that Ms. Blaney had presented to the committee simply because we're discussing committee business at this time.

Unless there's something I don't know about PROC, it seems to me that it would be perfectly in order to move the motion that Ms. Blaney had presented, given that it relates to the business before the committee.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota

Yes, Mr. Blaikie, you can definitely do that in committee business. That's why I mentioned that. I'm assuming that you will probably be doing that when it is your turn. It's appropriate to do so since we're trying to figure out at this point in today's meeting which direction we should be heading in as a committee, and what issues we should be exploring.

Mr. Turnbull, you have the floor.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am moving Ms. Blaney's motion with a few changes. Notably, one would be the timeline, which needs to be a bit shorter, because this is such a high priority:

That the Procedure and House Affairs Committee conduct a study of the challenges posed to the normal conduct of federal elections by the COVID-19 pandemic and identify the measures to be taken to adapt the approach and conduct of a General Election to preserve the health and safety of all Canadians. This study should begin with the top priority on a review of the recommendations made by the Canada’s Chief Electoral Officer in the Special Report of the Chief—