Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 15th, 2021

[Stéphane Perrault]

Some people won't be available all three days. People who work a regular weekday job won't be available on Monday. This means recruiting more workers to establish shifts for certain days and recruiting other workers for other days.

The number of workers needed is increasing. As I said in the last election, we were supposed to have 250,000 people, and we had 232,000. This led to shortages. Some polling stations opened later because of this, since workers didn't show up. That's a major challenge. In the pandemic situation, if we add the need to recruit more workers, this certainly makes things harder.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

The fact that seniors have now received two doses of vaccine, in many cases, should take some of the stress out of this—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's all the time we have, Mr. Therrien.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Perrault.

[Stéphane Perrault]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Mr. Blaikie, you have two and a half minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Monsieur Perrault, you've said more than once here today that you're confident, even under the current rules, that you could run an election that is safe from a public health point of view, but there's another important question that I want to put to you.

Strictly speaking, I mean, you can have an election [Technical difficulty—Editor] at 110% that was perfectly safe from a public health point of view. Safety from a public health point of view is one thing—it's very important—but the other thing that the committee was at pains to show, in both the main body of its report on the matter and in the very title, is that there are two things that have to be taken into consideration. The other is the likely turnout and people's comfort with voting, even if voting is safe.

There's a question about whether logistically it will be easier for people to vote under Bill C-19 in a pandemic context, and whether having measures like some of the measures in Bill C-19 would put people at ease and make them feel more comfortable about showing up to vote, either in person or voting by mail.

I want you to answer that other fundamental question, as I see it, in respect to Bill C-19. Do you think that Bill C-19 promises a salutatory effect on turnout and will help Canada have at least the kind of turnout that we've normally seen in elections?

Also, do you think there's a threat of a lower turnout [Technical difficulty—Editor] a non-Bill C-19 context to a Bill C-19 context?

[Stéphane Perrault]

There are many factors that affect turnout, and we don't control a number of them. Motivation and whether there are circumstances that light a fire for voters are things that we don't have control of. What we are responsible for is limiting barriers to voting and making sure that there's a range of options for electors who face a range of lifestyles and life circumstances.

For elders, people in remote communities, vulnerable populations, students...for all of these, I can say that we have a range of service options. People who want to vote, whatever their circumstances, should be able to vote in the next election.

Now, Bill C-19, in some ways, gives me a clear mandate to do things that I'm already planning—as I said, the services for seniors in long-term care facilities. If the bill does not have time to pass, I will use the adaptation power.

I think there was a very good idea in this bill, which is the use of drop-boxes in polling places. It's something we can do and we plan to do. It does not require a change to the legislation to do that, but it's certainly something that emerged from the bill. As we looked at it, we decided that this is something we should be doing so that voters, if they receive a postal ballot and it is late in the campaign, do not need to worry about their ability to cast their ballot. There's a range of things we are doing that are very much mirrored both in the report of your committee last February and, in some cases, in Bill C-19 and that will assist in ensuring that voters can cast their ballots.

As I said, I think we are in a good position. It doesn't mean that there won't be challenges. I want to be clear that any election is a bit of a challenge and that in a pandemic it's even more of a challenge, but we have a range of tools to assist voters in these circumstances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Perrault.

Mr. Perrault, do you mind staying another 10 minutes? We have some flexibility in our schedule today.

So that members are aware as well, we can go a bit past one o'clock today. I figure we might as well complete the second round with Mr. Perrault.

If you and your team would be willing to stay for 10 more minutes, we have two more questioners.

[Stéphane Perrault]

I would be more than happy to do so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

Next up we have Mr. Kent for five minutes.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I think it's Ms. Vecchio.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I'm sorry. Ms. Vecchio. I'll go to you then.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thanks very much. I wasn't sure about this.

Mr. Perrault, thank you very much for being here today, because I think you've brought in so much commentary on what this could look like and what we should be looking at.

Of course, this is the first time we've had a chance to really discuss Bill C-19. The facts you brought out about a three-day writ versus a one-day writ and all of these different issues you're talking about are things that we need to really reflect on. At this time, I recognize that there are opportunities for questions, but I want to move a motion because, specifically after hearing you, Mr. Perrault, it gives us a good reason to make sure there are opportunities for other witnesses.

I had put this motion on notice on Friday. I would like to move the following motion:

That, in relation to its consideration of Bill C-19, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response), the Committee

(a) invite the following to appear as witnesses at their earliest opportunities and prior to clause-by-clause consideration:

(i) the Chief Electoral Officer—

Thank you, Mr. Perrault, for being here today. It's been useful.

—(ii) a panel consisting of the Chief Electoral Officer of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Chief Medical Officer of Health of Newfoundland and Labrador—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Ms. Vecchio, could you slow down? You're going very fast for the interpretation.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay. That's not a problem. It continues:

(iii) a panel consisting of representatives of the Liberal Party of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Progressive Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the New Democratic Party of Newfoundland and Labrador,—

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

The interpreters can't keep up with Ms. Vecchio today. We didn't understand everything. There are points where the timing isn't right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay. Maybe we can slow it down and start from the beginning.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Absolutely.

Ms. Sahota, I believe this motion should be on the notice already. It's there if anyone wants to refer to it, but I will start from the top.

I move:

That, in relation to its consideration of Bill C-19, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (COVID-19 response), the Committee

(a) invite the following to appear as witnesses at their earliest opportunities and prior to clause-by-clause consideration:

(i) the Chief Electoral Officer,

(ii) a panel consisting of the Chief Electoral Officer of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Chief Medical Officer of Health of Newfoundland and Labrador,

(iii) a panel consisting of representatives of the Liberal Party of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Progressive Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the New Democratic Party of Newfoundland and Labrador,

(iv) a panel consisting of the Chief Electoral Officer of Yukon and the Chief Electoral Officer of New Brunswick,

(v) a panel of four federal returning officers, with one nominated by each recognized party—

As an aside, as you indicated, everything is going to have to be looked at. Although Mr. Perrault has been out there working with his people, it's really important that we also recognize some of those challenges.

It continues:

(vi) representatives of the Canadian Association of Long Term Care, and

(vii) a panel of professors Peter Russell, William Cross, Ken Carty, and Kelly Bildook; and

(b) invite appropriate technical officials from the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer, in addition to the usual officials from the Privy Council Office, to appear during clause-by-clause consideration.

Madam Chair, I believe everybody has this. There does not need to be a lengthy debate on [Technical difficulty—Editor]. What I'm indicating is that we have just heard from our first witness today and, even from this, he is bringing forward some amendments because there are some issues he is noting. I think that's really important.

We know this legislation was tabled prior to our even setting down our report. We know that we have not had efficient or effective time to actually look at these things. When we hear from somebody like Mr. Perrault, who is saying this is something he is looking at, I think it is really critical that we don't just ram this through and say that it's not going to be a safe election. We've heard from Mr. Perrault that he is able to make it a safe election. I totally understand where Daniel was going with that there. We have to make sure it is democratic, but at this time I think it is essential that we listen to some witnesses.

Ruby, I'll turn it back over to you and perhaps we can have the opportunity to discuss this and take it to a vote.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I was just going to ask you, Ms. Vecchio, if you would mind if we have the next questioner go ahead, dismiss our witnesses and then get back to your motion and decide what we want to do on that—debate it, vote on it or whatever.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Seeing that Mr. Perrault is here, I recognize the importance of hearing from him. We just need to make sure that we don't get into our report time. Thanks.

Whatever works for the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I just want to dismiss the witnesses. We have one more questioner. I'll dismiss the witnesses and we'll go right back to where we are here.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Yes, at your discretion. That's no problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

Next up, we have Mr. Turnbull for five minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks Madam Chair.

Thanks to Mr. Perrault. I don't know where you are on my screen now, but thanks for being here.

I wanted to go back and ask you a quick question to get it out of the way, and then I have some more in-depth ones. In terms of the writ period, whether it's shorter or longer, can you confirm for me either way that Elections Canada has a mandate and a responsibility to be prepared for a safe pandemic election?