Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 29th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's very generous of you. I was trying to figure out how to squeeze them in at the end. Thank you.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

You are too kind, Mr. Therrien. Many thanks to the honourable member.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

For the record, Madam Chair, I think we also were going to give some of our time later.

I just want it to be known that we wanted to be equally nice.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Oh, thank you.

Dr. Henry, I hope you know that, as a British Columbian, my deep respect for you was manifested in leaving you alone when we were both on Galiano at the same time. I figure if anyone is more tired than me, it's you.

I'll try to be concise with my questions, because some of them have been canvassed. I recognize that B.C. elections will still be grappling with some things. I'm getting reports from all over where people feel that they tried to vote by mail, they're not sure that vote got counted, and they're still trying to figure out if their ballot was received. There are questions here.

I wanted to track this to see whether it could be a public health question. We did have a historic low voter turnout. We did see, through the election period, an increase in the incidence of COVID. I mean, compared with New Brunswick when Blaine Higgs called his election, British Columbia's COVID rate was, at that time, six times higher than New Brunswick's. As politicians, particularly those who are looking to the main play—to move from a minority to a majority government—it looks like, quote, “it works”. I'm very nervous about that, because I think we're taking risks as COVID rates go up. We're in a second wave.

I'm wondering if you have any public health perspectives on how likely it is, or whether you have evidence, that people felt they didn't want to participate in an election because of COVID.

[Dr. Bonnie Henry]

That's a very challenging question. I don't have an answer to that. I know that a lot of polling is happening. There are many different reasons why people didn't vote. I have no specific knowledge that people were not voting because they felt it was unsafe.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Dr. Henry, I do want to confirm, as a British Columbia voter, that I found the experience of voting as you described it—extremely well run and quite COVID-secure. My friend Todd is nodding as well. We both voted in B.C. My experience of voting was that it was very safe.

As for my experience campaigning, I had less confidence. We were very careful. I campaigned, obviously, with Green Party colleagues. We were in masks and at six-foot distances, but I did observe conduct during the campaign that was, I would say, risky. I won't say by whom, but I didn't feel confident that the campaigning process was as secure as the voting process.

Can you imagine, for one moment, if we'd had a politician in British Columbia who was the B.C. version of Donald Trump? How would public health officials have contained that risk?

[Dr. Bonnie Henry]

That's a very good question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's all the time we have. Too, it's kind of a rhetorical question, in a way, I think.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

No, not really.

Thank you.

Again, I'd like to thank the honourable member.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

We are very close to the end of our time, and I'm wondering if we could squeeze in Mr. Blaikie for two and a half minutes before we move to committee business.

Is that okay with all the committee members? Good.

Mr. Blaikie, you have two and a half minutes before we end the formal portion of the meeting with our witnesses and move into our committee business discussion.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I was just going to say that I know the pandemic is grim, but I'm with Dr. Raymond: I don't think it's the end times.

Actually, I thought Ms. May posed an excellent question. I was disappointed that there wasn't time to answer.

Dr. Henry, I'll let you avail yourself of some of my time to answer a question that I did not take to be rhetorical at all.

[Dr. Bonnie Henry]

It would be the same as we do for any other person or organization or group. We do have the ability to enforce public health measures. We have not taken an enforcement-first approach in British Columbia. We do encourage and believe that most people are doing the right thing. It would be on a complaints basis, but if we saw that people were engaging in risky behaviour, then we have measures that we can take to deal with that. It's challenging to know. I think most people want to do the right thing. I think the important thing is having clear guidance about what is acceptable and what is not, and then parties holding each other accountable for making sure they're following that guidance. I am very thankful that we don't have that type of political rhetoric around the important measures that we need to take to prevent the transmission of this virus in Canada.

I'll just stop by saying what Shelagh Rogers said to me when we were talking the other day: This is not a bump in the road. It is the road”, and we need to learn to walk on it over the next coming months, and potentially years.

That's where we need to have our social contract here in Canada, so that we can keep each other safe and can still fulfill these important parts of our society and our democracy.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much. I think that's an excellent note to end on.

Thank you, Mr. Blaikie.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

On a point of order, Madam Chair, I just have a quick ask. There were a couple of times during our question and answer periods when questions were asked of our witnesses, but there was not time enough for them to answer.

In particular, I had a question for Dr. Henry about what advice she might give on enacting a public service announcement campaign to assure voters during a pandemic election that it would be safe to go out to vote. I'd like to hear an answer to that. I think it would be helpful for our committee if we could include that, perhaps, in our final report to the federal government.

If there are any answers that were not given because of time constraints, I would ask that the witnesses provide those answers in writing to our clerk so we could have them included in our final report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

We could have the clerk maybe clarify what a couple of those questions were. Would the witnesses be able to provide answers?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Justin Vaive]

Madam Chair, I would have to look at the transcript, once it is out by the end of the day or tomorrow. I could get back to the witnesses with what those questions were, to facilitate a written response from them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Lukiwski.

Thank you to our witnesses.

I guess I stand corrected. It wasn't a rhetorical question, but it was a tough one, and you did a great job in answering that. I guess it's hard for me to fathom that we would have the type of political climate that they are having down south, but you never know.

You have done a fantastic job answering all of the committee's questions, so thank you so much. We know it's a busy time for you, and has been for a long time now. Thank you for helping us walk that road together throughout this pandemic. You've been great.

I guess you can log off if you're able to.

The rest of the committee members, if you can stay logged in with your screens on, we have a few things on the go right now. I don't know how much we will get done in committee business today, but I wonder whether you'd like to set a meeting for the subcommittee on agenda so that we can maybe chart in, or properly mark out, our different days, at least from now through Christmas, because there are a couple of things on the go.

I don't know, Mr. Doherty, if you wish to move your motion that you've put on notice.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Yes, I would, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I move:

That the Committee schedule the following appearances, before November 27, 2020:

(a) at least one hour with the Speaker of the House of Commons and senior officials of the House of Commons Administration in respect of the Main Estimates, 2020-21, and the Supplementary Estimates (B), 2020-21;

(b) at least one hour with the Speaker of the House of Commons and senior officials of the Parliamentary Protective Service in respect of the Main Estimates, 2020-21;

(c) at least two hours with the Chief Electoral Officer in respect of the Main Estimates, 2020-21; and

(d) at least two hours with the President of the Queen’s Privy Council and officials of the Leaders’ Debate Commission in respect of the Main Estimates, 2020-21 and the Supplementary Estimates (B), 2020-21.

One of Parliament's core functions is to exercise the power of the purse. The least the committee can do is to spend a few hours before it the estimates get approved, asking questions about them. So far, as you know, we haven't done that. It is the core function of this committee to make sure that we are looking after it. It is one of the biggest committees that we have in Parliament, and I believe we should have these witnesses appear before our committee.

We do have a busy autumn, and this study, as we've just gone through in the last couple hours, is very informative. I believe the time can be found for things that are important, which obviously this spending is. The planned spending of the House is $771 million, which has been referred to the committee for study. The House of Commons is $516 million, plus $22 million. The leaders debate commission is up to $5.4 million, Elections Canada is $133 million, and the Parliamentary Protective Service is $92 million.

I believe it's imperative that as a committee we take leadership and have these witnesses appear before us, and with that, I'll ask my other colleagues whether they have any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Before we move on to questions, I just want to outline that your motion indicates that you would like six hours of witness appearances.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay, so we would have to find the time for that. The clerk and I were discussing that we are one of the rare committees that currently has a set-up of two meetings a week. Because of the lack of House resources or of tech support right now to run these meetings in a hybrid format, most committees are only having one sitting a week, so we are one of a few.

Despite that, I still feel that it's going to be tight, because we have over 25 witnesses still to hear from on this study. I don't know. Would the committee be willing to add extra time at a 6:30 to 8:30 meeting in order to accommodate this? You guys could perhaps give me your feedback as to how we make this all work so we can get it done before the November 27 deadline, and then also meet the self-imposed deadline of our study.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Madam Chair, I can speak for myself. I will let my other colleagues speak, but I can say that I would make myself available for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

It's possible. It's not a guarantee. We'd still have to figure it out, but there are time slots from 6:30 to 8:30 in the evening that might need to be tacked on. Maybe we could give this to the subcommittee to chart it all out. That might be appropriate.

What do you guys think?