Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[Dr. Jennifer Russell]

Again, to Dr. Shahab's point, we did not say that door-to-door canvassing was not allowed. We were in the yellow phase at that time and we just gave guidance on how to do it safely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Next we have Mr. Tochor for five minutes, please.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

To our witnesses, thank you, everybody, for attending today. More importantly, thank you for your public service during these trying times.

My first question is for Dr. Russell.

You talked about the different colour phases in Saskatchewan, and we don't have colour phases per se on there. It's interesting, though, that early on in the year you were talking about how it was evolving and we were trying to figure out what we were facing. I believe it was a red phase that your province was in. Just to clarify, it's during that phase that you wouldn't recommend.... As much as I know you don't have power over federal elections, provincially your recommendations would hold a fair bit of weight with the election officials.

Would your advice then be not to have an election? Am I hearing you correctly?

[Dr. Jennifer Russell]

Again, I went through the Public Health Act to see what powers we have under the act to use our judgment around what things are safe and what are not, in different situations. My understanding is that we would not really be stepping in to interfere with the democratic process.

I doubt very much that anybody would decide to hold an election if we were in a lockdown red phase. In terms of the fine line between who decides and what should be done or not done, for the most part public health stayed out of those decisions. We just offered our advice: “If you are going to have an election, this is how to do it safely.”

The only question would be, would we give different advice on what that safe way of doing it would look like in red and orange? I think so, absolutely.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I appreciate that.

Dr. Shahab, thank you again for being here today, and for all the work you're doing in our province.

There was consideration and public conversation about a spring election. With the leadership of Premier Moe, it was decided it wasn't worth the risk to hold a snap election for somewhat partisan reasons. What happened was that we followed the election law in Saskatchewan, and the election took place at the scheduled time.

Dr. Shahab, were you relieved when that statement came out in the spring?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

My role is to support Elections Saskatchewan. When the government calls an election and Elections Saskatchewan is required to conduct an election, I would support an election during any situation.

In the spring, we knew less about COVID, but we certainly knew enough about basic measures. Our rates at that time were mostly due to international travel. Of course, the dynamics of COVID have changed.

I would have been happy to support Elections Saskatchewan and the Province of Saskatchewan whenever an election had been called.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Just to make sure I'm hearing you right, depending on what stage we are in, there would be different restrictions or different advice given on how to handle a safe election. Is that correct?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

That is correct.

If I may add, in Canada generally, although we've had increasing cases throughout Canada, we have been fortunate so far not to have seen the cases that parts of Europe and the U.S. have seen, which are 10 to 20 times higher. It's difficult to visualize whether our recommendations would be the same if we had cases 10 to 20 times higher.

Certainly, I think that the way you go to vote is still safe even when you have very high cases, but the public confidence may not be that high, and the confidence of volunteers and staff may not be that high. That's the only thing I would say in terms of thinking about holding an election with much higher rates, which we in Canada fortunately have not seen so far.

Thank you.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I appreciate that you have a set number that you follow...policy. In Saskatchewan, we just had a series of days where we had over 60 cases. You have stated in previous months that if there were increased loads, such as we were experiencing, we would have to consider other measures. I appreciate that you have a number in your head. Sometimes it's public; sometimes it's not. We all have our different roles to play and reasons why that would be released or not.

Was there a number in your mind that was a no-go in Saskatchewan for an election?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

Again, I would say that.... In Canada, we have generally been using thresholds of 500,000, which for Saskatchewan is 60. I would really start getting concerned in terms of a general increase that was 10 per 100,000, which would be 120 cases.

The threshold where these specific measures have to be taken has generally been, in Canada and other parts of the world, at much higher levels. Initially, they were more on slowdowns and lockdowns, but as we learn more, I think we can be more confident that a lot of activity, whether it's business or pleasure, can happen as long as specific guidelines are followed. The real risk is where interactions are not controlled, whether that's in leisure time or in workplaces, where there is crowding and lack of attention to physical distancing and mask use.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Dr. Shahab.

Mr. Turnbull, you have five minutes, please.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for being here. We really appreciate your expertise and all you have to contribute to this important study that we're doing. Thank you.

Dr. Shahab, I read your remarks in advance and listened when you made them today. Would it be fair to summarize your overall remarks as “Avoid crowding and spread the election out in both time and space”? Would that be fair to say?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

Absolutely. I think the ability to use remote voting, like mail-in ballots or other technologies, would be very important, as much as feasible. For in-person voting, absolutely, spread it out and have more locations and more time to do pre-polling and polling.

Thank you.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Great.

I am going to ask you some short questions.

From a public health standpoint, would you recommend more polling stations or fewer?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

More.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

More advance polls or fewer advance polls?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

More.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

A longer writ period or a shorter writ period?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

I may not understand all the dynamics of a writ period, but certainly, if that relates to pre-election activities, I would say.... I would hesitate to suggest longer or shorter, but pre-election activities have to be generally safe, and in parts of Canada or parts of the province where transmission rates are higher, they may have to be further curtailed depending on the transmission risks.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Right. I mean, the writ period is just the election period. If we have more days, we spread things out more, so I think it's consistent with the other things you said. I'll leave it at that for the moment.

In terms of vulnerable populations, we've heard that seniors are more at risk during the pandemic, as are the immuno-compromised, people with underlying health conditions, people with disabilities, people who have lower income, people who are indigenous, etc. I think there are many other groups. Have I missed any major groups that you think are vulnerable?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

I think those are the broad categories—age and underlying risk factors—but certainly, COVID-19 can have serious outcomes even for the young.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Would you say that voting by mail is essential, as a tool for elections, for people who present a slightly higher risk?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

Our recommendations and the protocols we had would have made it safe to vote in person or by mail, but voting by mail I think lends confidence to those who would rather vote by mail and also decreases the crowding, even if you have more polling locations and more pre-polling.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

For people who have legitimate concerns about going to a polling station and know that they are at a higher risk, would you not recommend that they vote by mail if there is that option?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

Yes, especially if transmission is high, voting by mail or other remote methods, if available, I think increases confidence.