Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Ms. May, go ahead.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

I thank the colleagues on the committee for giving me this opportunity. All of the committee's observations have been very helpful, as have all of the witnesses that PROC has been calling this last while to look at holding elections in pandemics and how it can be done safely.

I want to ask Dr. Russell—and I hope I don't put you on the spot—do you think that voters in New Brunswick got the impression that when the premier said he'd spoken to you he'd actually obtained your advice, as opposed to just enjoying speaking with you?

[Dr. Jennifer Russell]

I think because I represent public health.... Again, I can't put words in the premier's mouth. Certainly, any time that I was asked what my role was in the election and decisions around it, I said that the only input I really had was how to do it safely.

Obviously, if you're going to try to reduce the risk to zero, that's impossible. No matter what the outbreak situation is and no matter how many daily cases you have, it does change the risks and we can't ever make them zero.

In our Atlantic bubble, we've been successful at keeping our case numbers low and keeping our outbreaks small and short. We have the luxury of having a low-risk setting to have an election. Our experience is going to be very different from what the federal experience will be, in the sense that it's hard to predict where the second wave is going or when it's going to peak.

The projected numbers right now are that by mid- to late November, the cases in Canada are going to go up to 8,000 per day. With the global risks increasing and lockdowns happening in Europe and England, it's hard to say when things are going to change in terms of the risk setting—the backdrop in which you'll have to make those decisions.

Certainly, we would never say whether to have an election or not. We would just say, this is how to make it as safe as possible, knowing that the risk will never be zero in a global pandemic.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

At the point that British Columbia's snap election was called, I looked at the rate numbers, and British Columbia's incidence of COVID at that point was six times higher than New Brunswick's.

This might be more of a political question, but I'd like to ask both Dr. Shahab and Dr. Russell. Do you think the fact that New Brunswick went first, with a very low COVID rate, led to any misperceptions in other jurisdictions that it's relatively easy or safe to hold an election in a pandemic?

[Dr. Jennifer Russell]

Do you want me to go first?

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Yes, thank you.

[Dr. Jennifer Russell]

Communications are a really big part of what happens in any crisis management. Evidence-based, transparent, up-to-date information around risks and what behaviours people have to do to keep themselves and their communities safe is very important.

Here in New Brunswick, we have the luxury of having a low number of cases due to a lot of hard work and a lot of protocols that are placed around our borders and the Atlantic bubble. I don't think people have a false sense of security—I hope they don't—around what it means to have an election during a pandemic.

All we can do is make the risks as low as we possibly can, knowing that, again, the risks will never be zero. I think that if it's framed properly from a communications perspective, people will understand that.

The democratic process probably does take precedence over all other issues at this time, but again, I think with proper communication, the understanding and framing of those risks can be done properly.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

This is a Saskatchewan question to Dr. Shahab. The leader of the Green Party in Saskatchewan, who is a friend of mine—and thanks to Tom Lukiwski for raising that there are other parties in Saskatchewan—was personally collecting signatures from any of her candidates who didn't own automobiles. A high proportion of the candidates who ran for the Green Party in Saskatchewan didn't own their own cars. The leader was out there collecting signatures for them and having to knock on many doors to get people to sign up so they could run.

Were there any protocols in place for that aspect of the election campaign, collecting signatures to get names on the ballot?

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

We had guidelines in place since the end of May or June for door-to-door canvassing activities. The cautions that were outlined there would apply to any such process.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Also, if I get any information from Ms. Hunter as to what she observed in the election, I'll pass it on to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Yes, absolutely. It would be helpful from anyone who has run in a provincial election or by-election.

Thank you to all of the witnesses today.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Yes, Mr. Doherty, go ahead.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Is it possible to ask one last question of the witnesses?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

You let go of some of your time, so I am sure it would be okay with the committee. Go ahead.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

It's just following up on what Ms. May brought in, and I think others.

To our witnesses, are you consulting or did you consult with other jurisdictions on best practices and are you continuing that? It goes to all witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Dr. Shahab.

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

We had been planning since February. We did not formally consult with New Brunswick or B.C., to my knowledge. I think Elections Saskatchewan may have connected horizontally, but obviously, we do look at each other's protocols and guidelines and learn from them all the time, and all our guidelines are posted online.

Thank you.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

There were no formal discussions, though.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Dr. Russell.

[Dr. Jennifer Russell]

No, not to my knowledge. Again, the basis of our public health information and guidance is ultimately from our conversations with the special advisory committee and the Public Health Agency of Canada.

All the evidence-based information that we use to base our decisions on in each jurisdiction comes originally from the Public Health Agency of Canada and our discussions with the special advisory committee, which includes all the chief medical officers of health for the entire country.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Great, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Dr. Russell, Dr. Werker and Dr. Shahab. It was a real pleasure having you provide your feedback and testimony today.

At this point, the rest of the committee is going to move into some committee business, but you are free to log out and go back to the busy day that you have.

[Dr. Saqib Shahab]

Thank you for the opportunity. The yes/no questions are very hard.