Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 9th, 2024

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I can confirm that it did happen.

In terms of lessons learned, at that point we learned about the importance of guest lists—who the Prime Minister invites to attend an event when foreign dignitaries are visiting Canada and having official events in the office of protocol domestically. As well, we found out about the international embarrassment caused by not vetting guests properly when diplomatic missions are involved in international relationship building around the world.

Ms. Kennedy, in your work and in any of the things leading up to this visit, in the office and the work you do, from that visit in 2017, during which a terrorist was found to be on the Prime Minister's guest list for an official visit to India—

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I was actually going to let Mr. Duncan finish his train of thought, because I think it's very disrespectful when I have stated why we are here today.

You have challenged the chair. We've had a vote, and you're choosing not only to ask questions but to answer them for the witnesses.

I have Mrs. Romanado on a point of order.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Madam Chair, I was just about to say that we've already established that the purpose of this meeting is to discuss what happened in the House. As you said, that was challenged and was voted down.

We have witnesses before us to discuss what happens in the House, and I would like us to remain on that subject.

Thank you.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

On that point of order, Chair, I think the most important thing that we're supposed to do here today is to ensure that this type of thing doesn't happen and embarrass our Prime Minister over and over again, whether it's due to circumstances within his office or somewhere else. We're talking about Canada's reputation and our Prime Minister's reputation and the two are linked, because we're talking about Canadians who travelled with the Prime Minister and who were presented in the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mrs. Wagantall, thank you. You've made your point. I don't think it's actually a point of order.

I would encourage you, perhaps next time when negotiations are being done as to what the committee will be doing, that somebody.... I know you weren't here, but perhaps they have briefed you. The wording is basically exactly what was offered by the Conservative Party. The witnesses who were invited are basically exactly.... It was not a smooth process as to what was passed in this committee—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Members are very well aware as to what took place here—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I understand the motion and how particular it is, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We're not having a back-and-forth. Thank you.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

—it requires feedback from other dynamics to make sure that is done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I am going to go back to Mr. Duncan, reminding you of the purpose of the meeting.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have a point of order.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mr. Gerretsen, do you have a point of order?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I was going to follow up on that, but there's no need.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm sorry. I didn't even hear you. Thank you. I'm glad Mr. Patzer was concerned about your points of order.

Thank you for all of this assistance that I'm getting here today.

Mr. Duncan.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

My point of order is about the continued reference to the motion that was passed by PROC on November 21. I had unsuccessfully attempted—and had been blocked—from talking about an access to information request that was provided in the media on February 5. We passed this motion on November 21; the information was not revealed.

I'm trying to raise new information that is very relevant to the individual named in this study that we are looking at, and I'm being refused. If we're going to reference this November 21 date by PROC, then we should also acknowledge that new information has come in since that motion was passed on November 21, and I have every right to raise that and ask questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

On that point of order, I would respectfully disagree. Mr. Duncan doesn't have the right to do that. What Mr. Duncan has the right to do is to keep within the scope of the motion.

He certainly had the right to try to amend the study. The Conservatives could have come forward and said, “We would like to now broaden the scope of the study.” The committee could have debated that before inviting witnesses, but when we invite witnesses here who think the meeting and the study are about one thing and then try to introduce new topics when they arrive, it's unfair to the witnesses.

You've ruled on this many times. You keep getting push-back from Mr. Duncan on this. He's not respecting your role as a chair, Madam Chair. I would strongly encourage you to ask him to come to order, or perhaps he would like to not participate in the meeting if he is not capable of staying within the rules that you have very clearly laid out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I am going to ask—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have another point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Do we really have to?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Yes.

Mr. Duncan should tread lightly on the fact that the November 21 meeting was actually in camera. He might want to be careful about what he says in terms of that particular meeting and what may or may not have happened within it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm going to bring us back. I offered you a five-minute break earlier. It feels like perhaps we need more than a five-minute break.

I am going to remind us of why we're here today. I am going to remind us, to Mr. Duncan's point of order, that the dates and timelines that were provided within it were satisfied. The work that the clerk and I do on this side of the room had been satisfied. If there were concerns at that time, they should have been raised at that time. November was quite a bit of time ago. It's actually last year.

Right now, we have a little more time with Ms. Kennedy, and then we have a lot more time with Mr. Carrière and Ms. Hudson.

I'm going to ask you, Mr. Duncan, to complete your time within the scope of the study.