Evidence of meeting #130 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was voting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
Thank you very much to all of our witnesses for your opening remarks.
We're going to turn to our first round of questioning here.
Mr. Berthold, you have the floor for six minutes.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Daoust, I heard your message, which is very clear on the negative effects that postponing the date of the 2025 general election for the reasons put forward by the Liberals and the NDP could have on the population and voter turnout.
You've talked about the impact of this postponement at the municipal level, but what do you think the impact might be at the federal level, in terms of all the cynicism that this date change might generate?
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
In this case, it's difficult to quantify. The impact may be short-term, medium-term or long-term, but the academic literature clearly indicates that people who have less confidence in democratic institutions and who are more cynical are less likely to vote. Certainly, if a bill fuels this cynicism and decreases trust in politics and satisfaction with democracy, we can expect voter turnout to decline.
Would this be the case in the next federal election? Perhaps a little. We know that when people don't vote the first time, they tend to do it again. So there are medium- and long-term consequences too. It's extremely difficult to quantify, but the academic literature clearly indicates that there's a negative relationship here.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
The fact that politicians change laws apparently to favour their own interests, such as benefiting from a pension, generates cynicism, which can be quite significant, among people who are going to vote for the first time or who already find politics a little repulsive.
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Yes. First of all, I don't assume that it's for the pension that these elements are in the bill, that's obvious.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Daoust, I'm talking about people's current perception.
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Yes, it will be framed as a measure that is probably opportunistic, strategic and in the service of personal interests. Yes, I'm of the opinion that it can fan the flames of cynicism and diminish confidence in politics and satisfaction with democracy, which, as I mentioned, has consequences for all sorts of democratic attitudes, but also behaviours, including voter turnout.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
You talked about adding advance voting days. I'd like to ask you some questions, because it's very interesting to hear you talk about this subject.
I was very surprised, when I first ran for federal office: you can vote from the moment the election is called.
Are there many places where you can vote practically from day 1? Are there a lot of places that do this? I know we can't do that everywhere in Quebec in municipal elections.
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Spontaneously, I don't have a definitive answer, but I think that's not the case in the UK and that, in most cases, you can't do that. I can't quantify it further at the moment.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
You could say that the system here is very open and very permissive so that people can exercise their right to vote in Canada.
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Yes, at the federal level, there are several measures. There's advance polling, which used to last four days, but will now last two more. As you mentioned, you can also vote by going to the polling station any day. There are also other measures, such as mobile voting in long-term care facilities and schools. So there are still a number of measures for people who can't vote on polling day.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
What do you think about the fact that this bill would allow voters to vote based solely on a party's name?
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
I'm not sure I understand the question.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
There is an article in Bill C‑65 that will allow voters to vote for a political party, and not for a candidate in the election, if the candidate is not known.
What do you think of this option? It's a little contrary to everything we've experienced so far, when we send a representative to Ottawa, not a party.
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
I have some research that talks about the effect of local candidacies, but this is beyond my expertise. I prefer not to comment on it.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you.
I have one last question on what we learned from a senior Privy Council Office official during the first hour of our meeting today: an electoral reform bill was prepared jointly and secretly by two political parties, which was supported by senior Privy Council Office officials. Isn't this just one more element to fuel public cynicism about the electoral system?
Professor, School of applied politics, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
Unfortunately, there was a fire alarm and I wasn't able to attend the entire first hour.
That said, it's obvious that anything to do with reforming the Canada Elections Act should ideally enjoy a broader transpartisan consensus than other bills, for democratic reasons. I'm not talking about the process upstream, but rather at the end.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I would be pleased, Mr. Daoust, to send you the exchanges we had with the Privy Council Office. Thank you.
Liberal
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Through you, I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us today.
I want to address the previous comments.
I want to let the witnesses know that, regarding the whole question of whether or not the date of the election was moved to benefit Liberal and NDP MPs' pensions, there are actually 32 Conservatives who would benefit and only a total of 28 Liberal and NDP members. I just wanted to clarify that and put it on the record.
My first question is for Dr. Garnett.
One of your statements was about participation. I know you're working at Royal Military College. One of the areas I want to talk about and get your feedback on is this: What would the impact of Bill C-65 be on students at RMC? We're talking about students, but we're also talking about military. You may have been one of my son's professors when he was at RMC, so I have some interest in this. I'm curious.
Have you heard about any impact on students coming from across Canada to study at RMC during their degree program? What would the impact on them be, and what would the impact be on serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces who are deployed?
Associate Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
Thank you for that.
I didn't prepare specific comments on how it would affect military electors, but I know that, in this current moment in time, there are already procedures in place that allow military electors to vote in their home ridings. For example, colleagues have said that when they were deployed, wherever they were, the military worked closely with Elections Canada to ensure that procedures were put in place to allow these electors to effectively cast a ballot.
What I'm most excited about regarding the new bill is the expansion of these sorts of additional supports to regular undergraduate and graduate students at any Canadian university. The supports that already exist for our military electors would be a benefit to any student at any post-secondary institution with an on-campus voting office, guiding them through the special ballot process. It's almost counterintuitive that the first time a lot of people vote is potentially using one of the most difficult ways to go about casting a ballot. I often say that, for someone like me, who lives at a stable address and gets a “you vote at” card, it's quite easy to go to a polling station down the street and show my driver's licence with my address on it and cast a ballot. The reality is that post-secondary students—many of whom are voting for the first time—might not have the correct address on their driver's licence. They might have to go through a more complicated process to vote in their home riding.
Therefore, having additional supports available and people walking them through the process is absolutely crucial, especially because we know voting is habit-forming. If they have a positive experience when they're in that educational institution, it's going to set them up for future voting.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
I was hoping you'd go into on-campus voting. I'm happy that you went there, but I think my colleague will pick up on that, so I will stop there on that question.
My next question is for Mr. Campbell from Fair Vote.
First of all, I hope your mom is better. If not, I'm terribly sorry to hear that.
You were talking a bit about the “vote anywhere” aspect and mentioning people being disengaged from the voting process. I was part of the Special Committee on Electoral Reform, so I got to spend quite a lot of time learning about proportional representation as well.
What would you recommend for us in terms of this bill, other than, of course, changing the way we vote, which I'm sure you would like to put in there?
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
Do you have any other recommendations for us, regarding this?
Board Member, Fair Vote Canada
I think the provisions around foreign interference are very timely and should be expanded quite a bit. There are real weaknesses on our nomination side and in internal party offices. It's not something on people's radars, but the people who make the decision on whether someone can run at all is a vulnerability, as well. In a lot of places, unfortunately, we don't get to vote on who the nominee is. There's only one person and they just get approved. That's something I would pay a lot of attention to.
One thing you might also want to consider, which I think is dangerous, however, and would have to be done very carefully, is “truth in political advertising” legislation. South Australia and the Australian Capital Territory have legislation in that regard. Obviously, there are a lot of downsides to that, in terms of how it could be perceived in one party if it isn't done with a very high degree of consensus.
Those would be two provisions.