Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[Franco Terrazzano]

I'll keep it very brief. If the government wants to prove that this is about avoiding a religious holiday and not about more pensions for more politicians, either make the election earlier or make pension eligibility later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Mr. Duncan.

Mr. Duguid, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of our witnesses today for their testimony on this important topic. My first question is for Mr. Bildfell.

Disinformation and voter suppression is a disease in some of our elections. Of course, we saw it in spades in Brexit, in the 2016 U.S. election and in 2020. Also, we're seeing it in living colour in the American election that will take place today.

We've seen a bit of it around the table today, Mr. Chair, and of course, as I raised at the last meeting, the Conservative Party was very involved in disinformation and election interference. I refer to the robocall scandal and other issues that the Conservative Party was involved in.

Mr. Bildfell, I've just read a book, The Lie Detectives by Sasha Issenberg. I really commend it to you if you haven't read it yet. It talks about this big challenge for democracy. Foreign actors, of course, are involved.

You called for the introduction of clear and targeted laws. Is this something that can be handled by Elections Canada? Do we need to give them more authority and more power? I believe that in the book, The Lie Detectives, when you read it, there is one country, at least, that has set up a particular organization within the government structure to deal with this particular issue.

Also, could you provide a comment on the role of platforms—Facebook, Twitter and others—and the responsibility they have and how they might be regulated to prevent disinformation and voter suppression?

[Connor Bildfell]

Thank you.

I have three comments in response to that question.

The first is that there is no doubt that disinformation and misinformation are huge challenges for our society, not just in Canada but in other countries as well. It's a significant challenge that requires a significant response from a number of different groups and entities. It really requires us to pull together to put in place the right policies and to execute those policies to protect election integrity.

At the same time, I think it requires balance because, in order to protect our elections, we need not only election integrity but also robust freedom of expression.

In terms of what government organizations should be involved in that and whether Elections Canada has the powers they need to do what they need to do to promote election integrity, Elections Canada is a very sophisticated government organization. It has done a lot of work—a lot of strong work—to ensure election integrity. I think it has significant levers to do the work that it needs to do, and we've seen that.

On your question in terms of the role of platforms, there is no doubt that platforms play a central role in facilitating freedom of expression, both during elections and outside the election period. I think we need to recognize that they too play an important role in our democracy and in getting information to individuals to be informed voters.

I think that both government and social media platforms should work together and should do what they can to enhance election integrity and work together in that regard.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you for that.

My next question is for Mr. Terrazzano.

My understanding is that you are a registered third party for elections. Is that correct?

[Franco Terrazzano]

We do not register.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Okay.

I receive many emails from you. You're pretty prolific in reaching out to elected officials and to the public, and I certainly appreciate the role you play, along with other organizations. I'm just wondering, and it's on the issue of transparency in elections in your communications. Do you believe that's an important principle in terms of communicating with the public and politicians?

[Franco Terrazzano]

I really appreciate your question. I'm not sure what that has to do specifically with the government delaying the bill to give more politicians a pension, but of course I believe the government should be transparent with taxpayers.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Right.

You are a donor-funded organization. Is that correct?

[Franco Terrazzano]

Again, I appreciate the question, and I'm happy to answer it. I will note that I find it interesting that you're changing the subject away from the government delaying the election, which would give millions in pensions to dozens of politicians. I'm not sure how our organization fits in with that bill.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

The election law that we are discussing today has broad application, as you know. I'm just wondering.... My understanding is that you do not publish your list of donors. Is that correct?

Will you be publishing your list of donors so that we can know who funds your organization?

[Franco Terrazzano]

Thank you again for your question about our donors. I will say that this is the third question that has nothing to do with the government delaying the election to give millions in pensions to dozens of politicians.

To directly answer your question, we will always respect the privacy of our donors, and I'm very proud to do so. Speaking of hundreds of thousands of Canadians, I think they would want to know what your answer is to why you wouldn't just make the election earlier or push the pension eligibility later.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the witness for not answering my question.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Duguid.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank all the witnesses for taking part in today's meeting. As I said earlier, we all want to strengthen the electoral process, increase voter turnout and improve transparency.

Mr. Terrazzano, I listened closely to your opening remarks. We at the Bloc Québécois are against moving the date of the election.

Listening to your remarks, I got the feeling that the decision to move the date of the election rests on a single factor. Did I understand correctly? What is this factor?

[Franco Terrazzano]

Thank you so much for your question.

I apologize. My French is not so good. I do need to work on that.

I appreciate your question. I'll give kudos to the Bloc, to the NDP and to the Conservatives. It's my understanding that all three parties are against delaying the election to give pensions to more politicians. Kudos to you. I would like to give kudos eventually to every MP on this committee because I hope you will do the right thing and either make the election earlier or make the pension eligibility later.

With respect to motivations behind it, I think there is a perception among the public that they're delaying the election to give millions in pensions to politicians that don't deserve it. Now, I don't think that's the perception. I hope that all MPs on this committee will do the right thing, so that we're able to give kudos to all MPs on this committee. Instead of giving millions in pensions to politicians who don't deserve it, I hope the committee comes forward with two very reasonable solutions, which are to make the election earlier or move the pension eligibility later.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

If I understand correctly, there is no other reasonable argument or reason for delaying the election. Is that what you are saying?

[Franco Terrazzano]

If the government allows the election to be delayed and ends up with dozens of politicians who take a taxpayer-funded pension when they shouldn't have to—if the government lets that happen—then it will be about pensions. They will have proven that it's about pensions for politicians.

There are two simple solutions to avoid a religious holiday. Those two simple solutions are to make the election earlier or to make pension eligibility just a little bit later.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

This is where I wanted you to go, actually. We talked about voter turnout and accessibility. Pushing the date of the election back to October 27 is not really about the coincidence with Diwali, because there is a wealth of options to make sure that people can exercise their right to vote. One day does not make any difference. The reason for delaying the election could be completely different—not to make any assumptions. At the very least, voter turnout will not be affected.

It is important to the Bloc Québécois that secularism prevail over religious considerations and that state and church be kept separate.

I am not suggesting that the decision to change the date of the election was made for a specific purpose, but we have to acknowledge that it will not affect voter turnout one way or the other. You are confirming this, actually. There must be another reason why this amendment to the Canada Elections Act is being proposed.

This ties back to what I said in my question. As you mentioned, Diwali is not grounds enough to delay the election. We could pick another option such as holding the election ahead of the planned date.

In short, the date of the election itself changes nothing and would not negatively impact voter turnout. Holding the election on the planned date of October 20 is perfectly feasible. Is that correct?

[Franco Terrazzano]

It's just not believable that between now and October 20, there isn't a day that we can have an election.

Let's just say that it's impossible to have an election on one of those 350 days between now and October 20 of next year. All the government would have to do to make sure this isn't about giving politicians who should not get one a pension is just to change the eligibility date for those pensions.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you.

That will be all for me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Barron, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to all the witnesses who are here today.

Very quickly, I would like to ask a question of Mr. Terrazzano.

I hope that we can get through it very quickly because there are many other questions I want to ask and, in my opinion, we've spent way too much time on something that's easily resolved.

To clarify, on May 30, 2024, did you write, “All MPs must vote against pushing back the federal election and the NDP deserves credit for announcing plans to amend the legislation and scrap the delay”?

[Franco Terrazzano]

It sounds like something I would have said. It sounds way better when you say it than when I do, though.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!