Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I can only speak for myself, Mr. Chipeur, but I was horrified to see some of the revelations from this very committee's study and, now, from the public inquiry into foreign election interference. I don't believe that Bill C-65 actually goes far enough to address some of those concerns. I do believe there are some steps in the right direction.

I'm going to shift gears a bit from foreign influence and foreign funding. Clause 43 of the bill amends the act such that a single person can assist an unlimited number of electors in marking their ballots. Do you see any concerns or questions about that when it comes to the integrity of our process? Do you have any concerns with that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

You have about 20 seconds, sir.

[Gerald Chipeur]

I'll be very quick.

Yes, I do. There have been instances in both Canada and the United States of ballot harvesting. This is something that could be abused by someone wanting to do that. Therefore, one of the things you should consider is a transparency requirement for individuals who participate, so they disclose who they are, what they have done and how many they've helped.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Calkins.

Madame Fortier.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to give the representatives of the Indo‑Caribbean Canadian Association the opportunity to answer some of my questions.

Given that some technical issues arose during their remarks, perhaps this will help clarify their comments.

How might holding federal elections on Diwali affect civic participation among Indo‑Caribbean and other South Asian communities?

What strategies would you recommend to ensure that this schedule doesn't disenfranchise voters who celebrate this holiday? Do you have any ideas to share on these issues?

[Alim Lila]

Thank you for the question.

We see it as an impediment for people from our community, the Indo-Carribean community, which is part of the South Asian diaspora. However, we also see Bengali Canadians and Indian Canadians experiencing those same obstacles.

The challenge is this: People are trying to balance their participation in these religious obligations. Diwali is a very significant holiday for the Hindu, Jain and Sikh communities. They are balancing those obligations with that most important right—the ability to participate in the democratic process. We've seen this occur. As my colleague Ayesha noted in her remarks, we saw this with the municipal elections in Ontario in 2022. People were experiencing that challenge in real time.

To your question, though, we have, as a community organization, put a lot of effort into “get out the vote" efforts, driving people toward advance polls. However, based on our engagement with our stakeholders and community members, that conflict was evident and felt.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

In this case, could you suggest any specific measures if a federal election were held on the same day as Diwali?

Could other measures be used to encourage participation in the democratic process?

[Alim Lila]

The addition of advance polls, the ability of people to cast their ballots early, is something that we, as a community organization have driven people toward.

In terms of broader expansion of this bill, we will defer to you, the parliamentarians.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you. This is why we have witnesses. It's so we can have ideas to reflect on.

I don't know whether Ayesha Khan also wants to share her thoughts on these two questions.

[Ayesha Khan]

From my perspective, I believe that the date should ultimately be moved. I don't know if there is a workaround, given that it is everyone's right. Whoever is eligible to vote in an election should be able to have the writ period to make up their mind, should they desire it. Having to pivot to voting may deprive them that ability, so I think the only real way to do it is to move it.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you very much, Madame Fortier.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm done. I asked the two questions I wanted to ask.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Okay. Sounds good.

Ms. Gaudreau, I think that you told me that you had no further questions.

Ms. Mathyssen, if you like, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I am going to provide the rest of my time, considering that it was short and that my last question was cut off, to Professor Pal. If he want to expand on anything, I am happy to give him the rest of my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Professor, if you'd like to use the two minutes, you're welcome to use them.

[Prof. Michael Pal]

That was a question on democratic electoral integrity.

Democracy in elections is under significant threat around the world, so we are all searching for solutions to try to have more integrity in our elections. There are some areas in which Canada is doing very well. There are other areas where more can be done, particularly around nomination contests.

Particularly on the question you asked earlier about adjusting to new technologies, such as AI and others, I'll go back to my testimony at the foreign interference inquiry. It's about adapting to the ever-evolving techniques of those who are hostile to democracy writ large. I think there are a number of different mechanisms in Bill C-65 that, overall, move us closer toward that ideal of electoral integrity, but I believe the Chief Electoral Officer mentioned periodic updates to the act. We had a big one earlier for the Fair Elections Act, in 2018. I would suspect that this committee will be studying another big change in future years, because we'll need to keep on updating to deal with those new challenges.

I think I'll leave it there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Wonderful. Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we have one order of business to deal with before we adjourn, but I am going to provide the opportunity for our witnesses to drop off now.

Thank you very much to all those who took the time for us today.

Colleagues, I spoke informally with members of all parties the other day about an invitation we received from members of the Ukrainian Parliament who would like to come to visit us. There was agreement, but we have to pass a procedural motion to move forward with that.

I'm going to read that motion and look for consent around the table. I spoke with all of you about this prior to the meeting, so hopefully there are no issues.

It reads:

That the committee meet, in an informal meeting, with a delegation of women parliamentarians from the Ukrainian Parliament on Thursday, November 28, 2024, and that the committee defray the hospitality expenses related to this meeting.

In other words, it's not a formal meeting. You are not required to attend. There will be no business of the committee discussed. It's simply an opportunity for these women parliamentarians from the Ukrainian Parliament to join us.

(Motion agreed to)

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I have one quick point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Okay, Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to raise informally the deadline for amendments. We discussed the deadline of Monday. We still have a number of witnesses to hear from. I think there are eight on the list whom we haven't heard from. The Chief Electoral Officer came before us and proposed a number of amendments.

It seems to me, in the face of that, that this Monday deadline is rushed. I realize there's perhaps a desire to see this bill get out of committee in a relatively expeditious manner, but allowing a little more time would make sense in the circumstances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Okay. Mr. Cooper, I appreciate your sharing your thoughts. The committee agreed, through a previous motion, on the date. In order for us to alter that, we would have to have agreement of the majority of members on the committee. There are two ways to do that. One is for me to survey the room right now. The other would be for you to formally move a motion on that matter.

Colleagues, I'm looking around the room. Please give me an indication as to whether or not you would like there to be an extension of the deadline.

I'm seeing a no from Ms. Mathyssen. I'm looking at our Liberal members, who are saying no. That is the majority.

If you would like, Mr. Cooper—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

No. We'll have our amendments ready. It's just disappointing that Ms. Mathyssen, who previously expressed this very concern, has suddenly flip-flopped to go along with her Liberal friends in the coalition.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cooper, for your feedback.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

There's lots of time.