Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

To be very clear, colleagues, 10 minutes following the end of the vote, we will resume our discussion.

Thank you, colleagues.

We'll suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Colleagues, we are now more than 10 minutes after the results of the vote were read by the Speaker.

Mr. Cooper was speaking at the time we suspended.

Mr. Cooper, the floor is yours.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Go ahead, Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I didn't want to interrupt Mr. Cooper.

Given the interruption with the vote and given that the Conservatives seem to have a lot of questions on clause 2—I'm very happy for that—I would just ask if you could please look into additional resources, including additional resources up until midnight for future meetings, until we can finish clause-by-clause and give everyone the opportunity to ask all their questions. Perhaps you could then report back on what sort of resources we can have as a committee.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thanks, Ms. O'Connell.

I will confer with the clerk to find the answers to those questions. I'll report back to the committee.

Mr. Cooper, the floor is yours.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll go back to where I had left off. I was raising questions about clause 2 of Bill C-65, which has implications with respect to polling stations and long-term care facilities during the writ period. I would make the general observation, based upon the response I received from Mr. Sampson, that Elections Canada....

I'll pose this to Elections Canada. It seems to me that Elections Canada is being asked to do more and more with fewer resources, at least fewer human resources, or is at least having difficulty in recruiting those resources. Is that a fair characterization?

[Robert Sampson]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] has been successively—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The interpreters cannot hear the witness. The microphone is probably a little too far away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

All right, thank you.

Mr. Sampson, could you move your microphone?

[Robert Sampson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm very sorry.

I was saying that as the Canada Elections Act has been successively amended a number of times over the years, the complexity of the electoral system has increased, so yes, that I can confirm.

In terms of the challenges in recruiting, we recruit a large number of workers in a very short period of time. The pay is modest and people need to be available to work on a Monday. The challenges remain more or less the same. They are stable challenges that are the same from election to election.

I don't know if that answers your question. I'm happy to say more, if you wish.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

If you were to look at this change, how many more...? Before I ask what I was just about to ask, which was how many more staff would be required—I'll ask you that momentarily—I want to go back to a question posed by Mr. Berthold. You may have answered this in full. If you did, I apologize.

What analysis has been done relative to the experience of COVID and the challenges of meeting staffing requirements with what will be an expansion of polling locations across the country?

[Robert Sampson]

Mr. Chair, I would draw Mr. Cooper's attention to the statutory report that Elections Canada produces after every election, where the numbers in terms of recruitment are stated, the challenges are described and so on.

I'm afraid I don't have an analysis available right now. We can certainly return to you, if that is your wish, but I believe that information is available publicly on the Elections Canada website in the report on the last election.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Can you comment now on what additional staffing or resources are going to be required? What is the projection with this change, with this expansion?

[Robert Sampson]

Perhaps I can ask Mr. Cooper whether he's speaking specifically to the long-term care situation.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Yes, I'm speaking with respect to long-term care.

[Robert Sampson]

I'm afraid we don't have numbers for that right now. To some extent, it depends on the number of long-term care homes that accept to have polling stations in their institutions. We can perhaps get back to you in terms of the numbers of staff that are required to staff long-term care homes.

This is the same regime that was used during the pandemic. I was able to provide numbers to your colleagues a little bit earlier in the session. We were able to serve about 5,000 long-term care facilities. Typically, and it may differ from long-term care home to long-term care home, the staff is usually two or possibly three election workers per poll. We may have to confirm that with you, but those are the approximate numbers we're looking at. I hope that answers your question.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You're estimating somewhere in the neighbourhood of 15,000 additional staff. Is that correct?

[Robert Sampson]

Mr. Cooper, we have a member of our operational team who is sitting behind us, so I could verify those numbers. She's probably in a better position to do so than I am.

[Trevor Knight]

I will add that one of the effects of this change will be to expand the polling period from just polling day to day 13 to day zero, so that's a two-week period. As Mr. Duncan was pointing out, there will be a human resources benefit, potentially, from this change, because the same people could be used over the course of that period.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Do you have an estimated cost of this?

[Robert Sampson]

I do not at this time, but that could be made available.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Okay. Thank you for that.

In terms of COVID, you indicated that there were approximately 5,000 long-term care facilities that had polling stations. I believe, if my recollection is correct, based upon the report of the Chief Electoral Officer, that, in the context of long-term care facilities, there were four different options or measures that were taken by Elections Canada, one of which was to have a polling station at the long-term care facility over a 12-hour period on election day.

Another provided for a polling location for a 12-hour period where the facility didn't request or wish that there would be a polling station. There were measures in place to provide for special ballot voting. There was one other measure that was taken. Am I correct on my recollection of what was in the report of Chief Electoral Officer?

[Robert Sampson]

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure if I can answer Mr. Cooper's question directly, but what I can say is that electors at long-term care homes had a variety of options allowing them to vote. They were able to vote at advance polls. They were able to vote with their special ballot. If the long-term care home where they resided had accepted a polling station, they had that option available as well. A variation on voting by special ballot is that they could also go to their returning officer's office in their electoral district and vote there using a special ballot, not by mail but in person.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Of the approximately 5,000 long-term care facilities that did request a polling location, how many would that be relative to total number of long-term care facilities in Canada? Do you have any idea of a ballpark figure? Was it that most long-term care facilities took Elections Canada up on that and made such a request?