Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 5th, 2022

[Dustin Fredlund]

In conjunction with the federal election in 2019, we had our municipal elections, which we hosted. Our advance vote was on election day, so we shared many of the same venues with Elections Canada in 2019. Anything that leaves my office is in all four languages. Our Twitter account is in all four languages. Our ballots are in all four languages as requested, whereas Elections Canada didn't...it's just English and French.

We had the signs posted side by side on the wall. Ours were in all four languages and Elections Canada's signs weren't. Obviously, we heard a lot from people. They were sometimes confused between the two organizations. We took a lot of phone calls from people complaining to us about our languages production, but in the end, it wasn't ours. It was Elections Canada's, so we got confused in that sense.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We'll now move to Mr. Turnbull.

You have six minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair. I'll split my time with my honourable colleague, Mr. Fergus.

Let me start by thanking the witnesses for being here. I really appreciate your testimony today.

For me, what we heard from Elections Canada during this study in the initial meeting was a kind of one-size-fits-all approach. At least, I took from some of the testimony we heard that perhaps there needed to be a solution that could work for every jurisdiction if Elections Canada were to implement a solution on this important topic.

I think that assumption got challenged in the last panel of last week, when we heard from individuals from Nunavut that indigenous languages being included on ballots was really important to them. In terms of other jurisdictions, it wasn't necessarily the top priority for other indigenous speakers. That was interesting for me to note. It challenged a couple of assumptions there.

Perhaps I'll go to Mr. Dunbar first, because the Northwest Territories has many indigenous languages.

Do you see an approach that really recognizes the regional differences of indigenous languages spoken in those areas? What would you advise Elections Canada to do in terms of being able to accommodate as many indigenous languages as possible? I know it's a tough question, but I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on that.

[Stephen Dunbar]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

There are probably two comments that I'll make on that.

First, we were one of the first jurisdictions—if not the first—to include the candidate's photo on the ballot. There were numerous reasons for why that first took place about 20 years ago. In part, it was to ensure that electors who may not have full literacy, or who may be able to speak indigenous languages but not to read them, would be able to identify the candidate by sight. That is one of the actions that Elections NWT took—I believe it was for the 2003 general election—to ensure the ballots would be more accessible to all electors.

The other action is that the returning officers in each electoral district will arrange, if there is a need for it, for interpreters to be available at each polling place. Because we have fairly small communities, we have one polling place per community, so there's a need for one interpreter in each community. In the communities where you have multiple languages spoken, we do make efforts to have interpreters for each language, but obviously that is not always possible. I don't think I've fully answered your question, but that is the best effort we make at the moment.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you very much.

I think that's my three minutes, Mr. Fergus, so I'll pass it over to you.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I'd like to thank the honourable member.

I also want to thank all the witnesses who are with us today.

My question is along the same lines as Mr. Turnbull's, and it's for Mr. Dunbar and Mr. Fredlund.

As Mr. Turnbull said, Elections Canada takes a one-size-fits-all approach, but in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut, the language that appears on the election ballot can depend on the community. In some communities, the languages used for the election ballot are English, French and Chipewyan, but in other communities, the language used for the ballot is the most widely spoken language in the community.

Do I have that right?

[Stephen Dunbar]

For plebiscites, yes, the plebiscite question would be translated into the language that is commonly spoken in that electoral district, but not for a general election because we don't have the languages on the ballot.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Fredlund, the information on the sample election ballot you provided appears in Latin or Roman characters, as well as in an indigenous language.

How do you determine which indigenous language will be used for the election ballot? Does it depend on the electoral district or riding?

[Dustin Fredlund]

Yes, for the example you see, this is exactly what a ballot would look like. Of the 25 communities, 23 use syllabics, the language you probably don't read. Then two of the communities use the roman orthography, but as you've noticed from the last example, it's written in Inuinnaqtun. This is exactly what a ballot would look like.

We have 100% compliance, so everyone in each community has their name in English and in Inuktitut syllabics regardless of whether they speak Inuktitut. If it's someone from southern Canada who's moved to Nunavut who wants to run, they also have their name provided to us in syllabics. We strongly encourage it, and we have 100% compliance when it comes to this.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Fredlund.

I think my time is already up, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Fergus.

Ms. Gaudreau, once again, welcome to the committee. Please go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. That's very kind of you.

I read what the witnesses from the last two committee meetings had to say, and that helped clue me in for today's discussion.

I appreciate the useful and specific answers the witnesses have provided in regard to organizing an election and making decisions about how candidates' names appear on election ballots.

I would nevertheless like to hear more from them on the proposal being studied by the committee.

To my mind, we need to determine how we can be inclusive of indigenous peoples—as part of the truth and reconciliation process—in a realistic and achievable way that aligns with the values of democracy, of course.

I believe it was Mr. Dunbar who said that, 20 years ago now, a recommendation had been made to include candidates' photos on the ballot to ensure that all voters, in Quebec and in Canada, who could not read their mother tongue or who were not literate would know who the candidates were. The issues the committee members discussed at the previous meetings may have pertained to omissions, errors and such.

I want to use the five minutes I have left to hear what each of the witnesses has to say on the subject.

Mr. Dunbar, what is the first step we should take to ensure that our recommendations reflect our desire to include indigenous languages on election ballots as part of the truth and reconciliation process?

[Stephen Dunbar]

Certainly reconciliation is an issue that we, as chief electoral officers, will be discussing later this summer in Iqaluit as well. It's an ongoing process and, for Elections NWT, one of the first steps that I'm certainly interested in taking is ensuring that someone who has an indigenous name would be able to see their name reflected on the ballot as they would spell it, and that may require using non-roman orthography.

On the ballot that I provided to the committee, you will see there are two names on there, one with Chipewyan spelling and one with Tł̨ıchǫ. There is a glottal stop in Chipewyan that, if it is removed in an anglicized form, you lose the meaning of what the name actually means. If you remove the glottal stop, you've lost all the context of what that name in Chipewyan actually means. For us it would be very important to ensure that, if a candidate came forward with a Chipewyan name and Chipewyan spelling, we would include that name as they spell it on the ballot. We would not try to anglicize it because I feel that would be quite offensive to their identity, to their name and to the spirit of reconciliation.

I'll pass it on to Mr. Fredlund from there. Thank you.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Go ahead, Mr. Fredlund.

[Dustin Fredlund]

I'm an instrument of my politicians. My work is not something that I make up. They meet, like you, and they tell me how they'd like to see my office proceed, when it comes to running elections.

If you're asking for my personal views on reconciliation, and how it would work with Elections Canada and indigenous languages, I can only tell you how my office does it, and from the examples, everything that comes out of my office is 100% in all four languages.

I will agree with my colleague, Mr. Dunbar. It's very important for people to be able to express their names publicly, and how they want them to be written, transliterated, and said. During Project Surname in Nunavut, everyone was given either English names or anglicized names. Many people still don't recognize their name, even though on paper that's their name. Typically, on a ballot, their name would be written in anglicized words, or they would be provided a surname from the government at the time.

Allowing people to write their name however they want, many elders will put their Inuktitut syllabic names without finals. It would be like writing in English without vowels. We accept that, because that's how they want to write their names.

In essence that's what—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Fredlund.

That helps me understand the specificities of indigenous peoples, who want their language to be recognized, including the different ways in which they write their names. It's important to make sure that is clearly understood. I also really appreciate what the other two witnesses said in terms of wanting to explain their experience.

Ms. Mack, I want to know what you think of what the Northwest Territories and the Yukon are doing. Perhaps it could serve as a model for Quebec and the rest of Canada when it comes to the inclusion of indigenous peoples.

[Samantha Mack]

I can't really speak to the full extent of the progress so far in the specific areas that you have mentioned. I do think that what Mr. Dunbar and Mr. Fredlund have discussed in regard to the intricacies of even alphabet and name is really important. The construction of the ballot, and what the ballot physically looks like in terms of [Technical difficulty—Editor] direction, is also a really important question.

The most fundamental question is to ultimately make sure that everyone who is looking at [Technical difficulty—Editor] digital or physical piece of paper [Technical difficulty—Editor].

Fortunately, in our case that's not—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Mack.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you everyone.

Go ahead, Ms. Idlout. You have six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᓯᕗᓪᓕᕐᒥᒃ, ᐅᓂᒃᑳᕆᐊᖅᑐᖅᑐᓯᒍᑦ ᖁᔭᓕᔭᐃᓐᓇᕆᔪᒪᕙᑦᓯ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᕆᔭᑦᓯ ᐊᑦᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᑐᓴᕐᓂᖅᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᓵᕐᒪᑕ ᑐᑭᓯᕚᓪᓕᖅᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᖅᑰᕋᑦᑕ ᒪᓕᒐᓕᐅᖅᑎᕐᔪᐊᖑᔪᑎᒍᑦ ᐋ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖏᑦ ᑎᑎᕋᐅᓯᖏᑦ ᐊᑐᖅᑕᐅᔪᓐᓇᖅᑰᕐᒪᑕ ᓂᕈᐊᖅᑐᓕᕆᓂᐅᑉ ᒥᑦᓵᓄᑦ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐅᔾᔨᕐᓇᖅᑎᖅᐹᓪᓕᒃᑲᓐᓂᕋᑦᓯᐅᒃ ᖁᔭᓕᕗᖓ ᐋ ᐅᓇ ᐋᒻ ᓂᕈᐊᖅᑐᓕᕆᒃᑯᓐᓄᑦ ᐃᐊᓐᑕᕕᔪᑏᒥ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ ᓄᓇᕗᒻᒧᑦ ᐊᐱᕆᓂᐊᖅᑕᒃᑲ ᑭᐅᔪᓐᓇᕈᑎᒃ ᒫᓐᓇᐅᔪᖅ ᐃᓕᒃᓯᓐᓯ ᑲᓇᑕᒃᑯᑦ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᓂᕈᐊᖅᑐᓕᕆᔨᕐᔪᐊᒃᑯᑦ ᐃᑲᔪᖅᓯᑲᓐᓂᕐᓂᐊᕈᑎᒃ ᐋ ᓂᕈᐊᖅᐸᓪᓕᐊᔪᑦ ᐊᒥᓱᕐᖑᑲᓐ-ᓂᓂᐊᖅᐸᑕ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅᑎᒍᑦ ᐃᓱᒫᓘᑕᐅᒻᒪᖔᖅ ᓇᓕᖅᓯᕐᒥᒃ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖃᕈᓐᓇᕐᒪᖔᑦᓯ ᓲᕐᓗ ᐊᐅᓚᓂ-ᕆᔭᖏᑦ ᐅᒡᕙᓘᓐᓃᑦ ᑮᓇᐅᔭᖃᖅᑎᑦᓯᓐᖏᓗᐊᕐᓂᕐᒥᒃ ᐋ ᑐᓗᖅᑕᕈᑎᖃᕐᓂᕋᐃᒍᑎᒃ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐅᓂᒃᑲᐅᓯᔪᓐᓇᖅ-ᐱᓯᐅᖅᑲᐃ, ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ.

[Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

Thank you to all the witnesses who have just spoken. Your comments are very important, and I think we all have a clearer understanding, especially in terms of indigenous people and voting.

Thank you for inviting me to speak as a witness. I have enjoyed listening to other witnesses regarding this important issue. As an Innu, I have always known that language and culture are intimately connected, but I have been intrigued by this system's attempt to isolate language in the context of voting. I believe the attempt to separate language and culture is another indication of the impacts of colonialism. While initially voter turnout may have been high, voter turnouts declined, and remained low for generations.

Can you speak to that in terms of funding?

[English]

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Ms. Idlout, is your question going to everyone?

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

It's for the NWT and Nunavut.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Perhaps we'll start with Mr. Dunbar again, followed by Mr. Fredlund.

[Stephen Dunbar]

Qujannamiik, Ms. Idlout.

We have a budget process that we go through with our legislative assembly. They have given us contract dollars that we will be using for interpretation services to be able to translate materials into languages. There is no one in my office who speaks all 11 official languages. I think we cover off two at the moment. I would say we are adequately resourced to translate materials into all 11 official languages, the caveat being that it is not always possible to turn around materials in a timely fashion given that we don't have a one-stop languages bureau like there used to be in the 1990s.