Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 5th, 2022

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

There's legislation before the House right now, Bill C-14, on a change to the distribution of seats.

I would like to know whether you've taken into account in these estimates the possibility that the House might pass this legislation on to the Senate and that the Senate would pass it, and then the electoral boundaries commission in Quebec would have to redo its work.

In the anticipation of this possibility, are additional resources being set aside for this task?

[Stéphane Perrault]

The main estimates were presented several months before today, so that bill did not exist at the time we presented the estimates. However, there is a statutory authority. When commissions do their work, the costs that are incurred are taxed by my office as appropriate costs in the sense that they relate to their work. If they need additional expenses, they would therefore spend that money. There is no need to ask Parliament for additional money for that. It's covered by the statutory authority.

Right now, the cost estimates for the redistribution exercise do not contemplate any extension of the work.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Okay.

Would you be able to provide to the committee—through you, Madam Chair—what you think the costing will be for this?

I know it will come in future supplementary estimates, but is that something you could provide to the committee ahead of time? I think that should be something for the committee to consider.

I support Bill C-14. I'll vote for it. I said so publicly on the floor of the House too, just so we're clear. It's nothing new, but I'd like to know the costing.

[Stéphane Perrault]

Mr. Limoges will correct me if I'm mistaken, but the overall cost of the redistribution exercise for the commissions is just under $15 million, of which $7 million is planned for this year. The bulk of their expenses, the $7 million, is for this year. Of the remainder, a bit was for the prior fiscal year and then the next fiscal year.

I don't have the breakdown by commission. Of course, the cost will vary depending on the size of the commission, but I do not expect any significant cost, especially if no extension is required by the commission.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Mrs. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses with us today.

Mr. Kmiec asked the exact question I was hoping to ask, so thank you for that.

One thing we heard during the last election, Madam Chair, was the difficulty in finding people to work at the election, such as poll staff to count the votes on election night, and so on.

Could the commissioner or perhaps Monsieur Limoges elaborate a little bit on the expenditures and any increase required to get more folks interested in working on election day? We did have a lot of trouble finding folks in my riding who wanted to work during the election.

What kinds of initiatives are you looking at to increase that to make sure we have adequate resources at the polls?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Prior to the last election, we did seek an increase in the tariff of fees. This is something that is approved by the Governor in Council, and it was approved, so there were increases in the tariff of fees. For the first time, that also included provisions for overtime, which is now aligned with the Canadian Labour Code, so there was a significant increase in the labour force costs of the election; the amount is $44 million in addition. Comparing the labour force costs of the last two elections, the last one cost an additional $44 million in labour costs, so it's quite significant.

I honestly don't know that throwing more money at it would provide a significant increase. We're at a point where the workforce of people who are available on a Monday in a tight labour market is limited, and people who do have a job will not suspend their work for that.

Madam Chair, that's it.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much.

Further to that, I know that I heard from folks who had worked at the election that there was a delay in getting paid. Some folks had difficulty receiving the pay for the work that they did; they were waiting weeks and weeks, if not months. Given that there's such a small pool of the population who are available to work, as the commissioner just mentioned, would that not hinder people who had a bad experience in terms of being paid on time from being recruited for the next election? What could be done to rectify that?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

On the whole, we're quite proud of the time for payment. It's in the range of 96% or 98% who are paid within four weeks, and when we're talking about 195,000 people whom we did not know just a few weeks prior, it's quite an achievement.

Unfortunately, in some cases there's information missing. There may be an error in the way the bank account number information is provided, or the name or social insurance number. Those errors, missing information or maybe a missing time sheet cause some delays for a small number, which can be significant, especially if the information is packed away after the election and it's held locally in the returning offices.

Over time, we are looking at changing our systems for recruitment and pay to make them better integrated and hopefully to have more access to the data remotely from headquarters, thus not waiting for the time sheets from the local returning officers and reducing the number of errors.

For the bulk of the workers, we provide very quick payment.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question will be for Madam Torosian.

One other area we hear a lot about is a lack of information or education regarding the electoral process. For instance, during the last election, I was still explaining to folks that they could go vote at the returning office and that they don't need to have an excuse that they're going to be absent, because that is something I think used to be in place many, many years ago.

A lot of Canadians don't know that there are many options for how to exercise your democratic right. Could you elaborate a little bit on some of the initiatives you're doing to educate? I know we've talked in terms of candidates getting out to folks to tell them that they can do that, but what other outreach efforts are you making in terms of the budget?

Thank you.

[Susan Torosian]

Madam Chair, we spent a lot of energy focused on the four ways to vote in the last general election, and voting in the local office was one of those four options. The first was voting at your assigned polling location on election day, because that is how most Canadians still vote. The second was the advanced poll voting option. The third was the vote by mail or special ballot. The returning office was the fourth option. This is the order in which we presented them.

We started our promotion of all the voting options—what we call the “early voting” phase—one week earlier than traditionally in the electoral calendar. We increased our budget on that phase of the election because we knew that in the pandemic, people would be seeking other options to vote.

We also did a lot of outreach through our Inspire Democracy network of some 600 organizations to get the word out to the groups known to face more barriers to electoral participation. It was a very big focus for our campaign. This information is also noted in our “Guide to the federal election”, which is distributed to all Canadian households. All of the options to vote are presented there. It is also noted on the voter information card that individuals get.

We continue to put those messages out there. We use social media and advertising. It's very much a multimedia campaign. It's a very expensive campaign.

The recalls are quite good, but there are some segments of the population who are not always aware. We often chalk that up to people who generally aren't registered, because they don't get their voter information card. That's where most people remember what their voting options are. It's an individual card addressed to them with what their individual voting options would be. Some segments of the population will have less knowledge.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

I know the pride that you would have in the institution, but I find four weeks, when you're expecting a paycheque, to be a long time. We can talk about that off-line, but I feel that's a long time to wait for a paycheque, especially because we know how challenging it's been for people. I didn't know that, and I advertise for you all the time. It's one day of good work, but I feel that it's a long time. I wanted to put that out there.

Ms. Gaudreau, you may go ahead.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have two and a half minutes.

The solutions are plentiful—so, too, are the problems, whether it's the four-week delay in people getting paid or the availability of space. More money isn't what will attract more people. You conduct multimedia advertising campaigns. The pandemic has changed how we do everything. Just think of vaccine passports. It's all electronic now.

It is up to us, as parliamentarians, to make sure that people are confident enough in the system to go vote. It is up to us to show that we can be trusted to build the future we all want.

Increasing voter turnout, however, requires the right tools. People in my riding of Laurentides—Labelle tell me that we know where to find them because they already receive communications via their devices, although not everyone has a device. We've done the rounds.

Is that an option? Are you there yet?

[Stéphane Perrault]

We are absolutely there. We have quite a few things we want to prioritize, but one of them is certainly an app through which voters could receive the same information that currently appears on their voter card, but electronically. It would not be mandatory, but an app would allow us to remain in contact with voters wherever they go because people always have their cellphones with them. With an app, we could also notify voters of any polling station changes and send out reminders. It is definitely a tool we could leverage.

Ontario deployed an app for the upcoming provincial election. We are going to examine how successful it is and apply lessons learned to the federal process.

The answer to your question is yes, it is one of the improvements we are looking into.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'd like to use my last 30 seconds to ask the witnesses what tools we, as parliamentarians, can give them so that they have the necessary latitude to achieve their goals. If adjustments are required to enhance privacy, for instance, that work has to happen ahead of time, if we are to do what needs doing and focus on what lies ahead. After all, the next election isn't that far off.

Thank you.

[Stéphane Perrault]

I agree. We live in a world of data, a world where crises of confidence are commonplace, even. I think we should celebrate the fact that Canadians continue to have a high level of confidence in Elections Canada. We mustn't have any illusions, however, because confidence is always fragile. We must take special care to maintain that confidence. Now more than ever, data privacy and security are at the heart of public confidence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Mr. Bachrach is next.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Over a dozen countries around the world, including Argentina, Scotland, Wales and several German states, have lowered their voting age to 16. I wonder if Mr. Perrault is familiar with the international experience with lowering the voting age, and if, on balance, those experiences have been positive ones.

[Stéphane Perrault]

Madam Chair, I am aware, especially of Scotland, but I think Brazil has also lowered its voting age. There are a number of countries that have done that. There is talk in the U.K. of extending that, so I understand that, but I can't speak more broadly about how it has been perceived or received in those jurisdictions. That is something I don't have here with me.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Chair, for Bill C-210, the right to vote at 16 act, the coming into force date is six months after the bill receives royal assent. I'm wondering if Elections Canada would see any major logistical or administrative barriers to implementing Bill C-210 and providing the vote to 16- and 17-year-olds in Canada.

[Stéphane Perrault]

I'd be happy to appear before this committee, should the bill come here, but off the top I do not see major obstacles. We would have to, of course, adjust the register of electors to make sure that 16-year-olds can register directly online. Now they are in the pre-register of electors, and so there are some adjustments that would have to be made to our systems for that.

Certainly we'd have to come up with a voter education campaign to make them aware of that change, because it would be a significant change, but beyond that I don't see any major implementation issues.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. My final question in this round is the following.

Canada lowered its voting age from 21 to 18 back in 1970. What has the voter turnout trend among 18- to 24-year-olds been since 1970 when we lowered the voting age?

[Stéphane Perrault]

My memory doesn't reach back to that date. I'd be happy—