Evidence of meeting #37 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Commisioner, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
In answer to your question, I would say that the act gives me discretion. It is important to understand the parameters within which this discretion can be exercised and to know that this discretion has been exercised in the past. You will find that information in my predecessor's public reports.
That is what I can tell you at this time.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
You said that the presence of activities or entities from outside Canada's borders could significantly increase the complexity of an investigation.
We are here to help you. What might you need in order for your investigations to be less complex?
11:45 a.m.
Commisioner, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
As I said, our mandate is set out in the act, we have tools now, and we are able to do work now.
What is important to understand is that our mandate is limited to those provisions and that framework, and we have to work in collaboration with partners. That is what we are doing now and will continue to do.
Since you seem to be offering us a hand by asking us what improvements might be made, I would say that a recommendation was made previously by my predecessor regarding the definitions and terms used in the act. The deputy commissioner could given you details on that.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Since I have only a few seconds left, I will invite you to tell us in writing what things you are lacking at present and what you might need, Commissioner.
Similarly, Mr. Perrault, we would really like to know what comes out of your exchange of ideas with Australia and your upcoming meetings with Brazil, among others, in order to include that information in our report.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you.
That is a good invitation, which I will also issue to all the witnesses. If anyone has additional information to provide to the committee, you need only send it to the clerk of the committee.
Ms. Blaney, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My last question for both of you is really on the pre-election period. We're hearing a lot more about the due diligence that needs to be done in the pre-election period. We can't ever overestimate how foreign influence will come through the process.
I'm just wondering if you could talk a little about what would be more beneficial around the pre-election period in terms of the services you provide and how they could assist us in building Canadians' trust in the systems we have here for our elections.
Thank you.
11:45 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Madam Chair, if I may, it's important for us to increasingly talk about what we do to protect the integrity of our electoral process. This is something we certainly began in the last election. I think it was quite successful. We had a lot of information about postal ballots because of concerns with those.
It's also important to go beyond that and to explain to Canadians why they should trust elections. We have extraordinary safeguards in our procedures. They would know that it is a very transparent process, if only they knew more about it.
I think we have a responsibility to share that information with the Canadian population, of course, through the media and through MPs and candidates. That is certainly a way forward when we talk about work between elections, so that we seed the ground with healthy information about the voting process and not let the space be filled with conspiracy theories or inaccurate information.
11:45 a.m.
Commisioner, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
My answer would be that it is important for Canadians to submit their complaints to us. For information, in the last general election, 13 situations involving foreign interference were brought to our attention in 16 complaints, while our total caseload came to 4,000. So it is important for Canadians to communicate with us.
In terms of the complexity of the investigations, you have to understand that it is all a matter of evidence. Because we operate on the basis of tangible facts, it is important that we be provided with those tangible facts.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
My time is wrapping up, but I will say again that it is by interacting with our systems that we build trust, so I think it is important for the pre-election component.
Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I will direct my question to whoever is in a position to answer.
The Canada Elections Act prohibits a third party from using foreign funds for regulated purposes, as you noted.
Let me just give you a hypothetical. A third party can spend $1.5 million. They receive $1.5 million from domestic sources and a U.S. entity donates $1.5 million. If they spend $1.5 million in an election, what happens?
11:50 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
It's a hypothetical. We may not have a window on the historical assets of that third party. A third party is anybody in Canada who is not a registered party, the electoral district association or the candidate. Essentially, it's everybody.
We don't have visibility on the history of its assets. It does need to report, and that was an improvement brought in—
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
It needs to report monies that are spent for regulated purposes, right?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
If it reports that it has used that $1.5 million—and very few of them reach that amount because, to be clear, the vast majority spend small amounts—it will have to report the source of the expenditure, of the funding for that money.
A significant portion could be its own funds, so we have no mechanism—
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Those funds could be foreign funds. That's why I made recommendations that third parties—
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
That's even though the act says there's a prohibition on the use of foreign funds. You're saying that doesn't really mean much.
11:50 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I wouldn't go that far, but I'd say it's incomplete.
Until we have a grasp on the use of an entity's own funds, I think the act is incomplete and it needs to be addressed.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I want to ask another question.
I think, Madame Simard, you mentioned there was no significant difference between the number of issues giving rise to complaints containing allegations of foreign interference in the 43rd election and that in the 44th, but what were the numbers?
If there wasn't a significant increase, what were the numbers?
11:50 a.m.
Commisioner, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
I'll ask the deputy commissioner to answer this question.
Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner and Chief Legal Counsel, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
I believe for the 43rd general election there were 10 complaints involving some component that could be foreign interference. For the last general election there were 13 complaints. Again, those are allegations. In many cases they don't fall within the prohibited conduct in the act. It depends again on what the prohibited conduct is and what the allegation is. Often we cannot do anything with the complaint.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Mr. Cooper, I enjoy having you on this committee. You always give me time back, so I appreciate that.
Mr. Turnbull, you have four minutes.