Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 1st, 2022

[Michel Patrice]

The seating arrangement will be a subject, I'm sure, of many discussions with the working group. You're right that we have to look to the future in terms of benches that we put in to complement the increased number of members in the Centre Block chamber. It was not the most liked addition. Those discussions will be engaged in with the members of the working group, and your representative will be consulted more broadly in terms of the seating arrangement.

For example, with desks, we can anticipate that somewhere in the life of that newly renovated building, because of growth, there may be less room for desks. There will be many discussions and, hopefully, a vision for the future through the dialogue with and decisions of the working group, dialogue with the members in their own parties and, ultimately, the recommendation of the board.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent. That brings us to the time.

I'm going to propose, because things are taking a little longer, that we will get through round two of questioning. I find this to be a very productive conversation, so if we would like to try to get through our third round so that most members are able to ask their questions, would we like to ask witnesses to stay until 1 p.m.? That way, we can get through three rounds. Is there a desire from committee members? Is anyone opposed?

Okay. That would probably take our committee business away for today, but we can do it on Thursday.

This is a notice to the witnesses that we are asking you to stay until 1:00 so that we can get through this conversation and receive this information.

We'll go into round two. We will be starting with Mr. Calkins, followed by Ms. Sahota, for five minutes.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille and Ms. Blaney will then have the floor for two and a half minutes.

Finally, we'll have Mr. Vis, followed by Mr. Fergus, for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

To the folks here today, thank you so much for taking the time.

I've never had an opportunity to ask any questions about this. I just celebrated my 16th anniversary as a member of Parliament a few days ago, and I'm happy to ask a few questions here. I'm hoping my career is long enough that I'll see my way back to Centre Block.

When did the shovels first hit the ground? Can you remind me of the date that happened?

[Rob Wright]

If you remember, the transition of Parliament happened in early 2019 with the start of proceedings in the West Block. That first year, 2019, was mostly consumed with setting up the construction site and separating the facility from the parliamentary grid.

The real shovels in the ground, to get to the bottom line, started in 2020.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Okay. It was 2020.

I didn't see in any of the presentation a PERT chart, a Gantt chart, or any elevations.... It seems to me, from the discussions we're having here, that we started a reconstruction process without actually knowing what the final project will look like. Am I missing something?

[Rob Wright]

This is a traditional approach that we've used on Parliament Hill. It really is a construction management-based approach. We've brought on the design team and the construction management team at the same time.

The key thing here with the Centre Block, as well as the other buildings within the precinct, is that there's a tremendous amount of heavy lift at the front end that is not really dependent on the design, such as taking all the asbestos out of the building, which is a couple of years of work, and doing all the excavation work.

For example, once we locked down the size of the Parliament Welcome Centre, we were able to get going on that in taking all of the asbestos out of the building and getting that done. We try to do things in parallel, rather than in series, rather than waiting to get all of the design locked down and then beginning the construction.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

We still have an estimated completion date and a budget, but we don't know yet.... What percentage of the budget is contingency? What are we looking at? Are we looking at 50% contingency or 100% contingency?

I look around at some of the other procurement projects the government has, and I'm seeing things costing four times more than they did 10 years ago. What's in place to make sure this doesn't end up being something that costs four times more in hindsight than what we planned a few years ago?

[Rob Wright]

In June 2021, we had an independent costing firm work with us to establish a baseline cost estimate. All of the contingencies, risk reserve and escalation were factored into the cost breakdown.

If we look at contingencies, we have design contingency as well as construction contingency. It maps out well, given the complexity and scale of the Centre Block compared to other projects in the precinct. For example, the West Block had contingencies of 35%. We're using 45% for the Centre Block, given the increased complexity with all of the additional heritage material in particular.

For the risk reserve, for example, we used 25% risk reserve on the West Block. We're using a range of 15% to 35%. That's how we get to that range of $4.5 billion to $5 billion. It's that range in the risk reserve. The reason we've used a range in this case is twofold. One part was that we still did not have all of the functional requirements locked down with Parliament, and, the other was that given the pandemic context of escalation rates in materials, equipment and rates of labour, we wanted to make sure we had some additional absorption to be able to take into account the potential that escalation rates would take a while to return back to normal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

You have 20 seconds left, Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I have just one concern about the notion of a public cafeteria. This or any government would collect taxes from the restaurants on Sparks Street, and I don't understand where the idea or notion came from that we would take those tax dollars from those restaurants and build a competing facility across the street in Centre Block, unless there's something I don't understand. Is it going to be provided by a private contractor, or are we actually now in the business of competing with local restaurants?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm going to end the time there. Perhaps we can get an answer to that at a later time.

We now have five minutes for Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

I'm a little confused by that last question. Anyway, I did appreciate having cafeteria access when I was in Centre Block, and I'm sure that the new plans will be great.

I want to commend all the witnesses for being really professional. I can tell that from the meeting we had in 2020 to now, things have really come along. There are a lot more details being provided in this plan than there were at that time, so it's wonderful to get this update.

It was mentioned that the LTVP group or the working group has decided that we will remain with two large committee rooms. What went into deciding that? I believe that in Centre Block previously we had one on the Senate side as well, and we also used a room on the lower floor as a committee room.

What were the factors that led to that conclusion?

[Michel Patrice]

I will start and then turn to Mr. Aubé to give more details.

We're talking here about committee rooms for the use of the House of Commons. It's a review of the committee rooms for the House of Commons, and it's taking into account our full basket of committee rooms in the different facilities across the House of Commons precinct.

Maybe Mr. Aubé can be more specific about the committee rooms in Centre Block.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Through you, Madam Chair, as you remember, Centre Block had three committee rooms. There were rooms 237 and 253, and there was room 112 down in the basement, but 112 wasn't really functioning as a committee room.

Our requirements basically remain the same for the Centre Block facilities. As you know, through the implementation of Wellington, we did increase the number of committee rooms we had, but based mainly on consultations and our statistics regarding the number of meetings, our requirements have stayed the same.

We see the number of events increasing, and we have sufficient rooms and facilities to manage that. We feel that if ever there is a requirement, we can leverage other facilities. Because we are interconnecting all of these facilities, we will be able to leverage any one of them.

We have to think about how, once we renovate Centre Block, we will go to West Block. As you may remember, the original plan for the West Block chamber was to potentially transform it into committee rooms, so if ever there is a need in future to increase the number of committee rooms in that complex, we will have that capability.

What we're going to do with these spaces will be determined through consultation with members once we get to West Block.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Through you, Madam Chair, I would also like to know just a bit about what you're hinting at. Discussions are continuing on transforming the block across from Centre Block as well in the future.

Can you share a little bit more as to what the status of that part of the project is?

[Rob Wright]

The redevelopment of block two, directly across from the Peace Tower, is going to be a really important step for the parliamentary precinct. It finishes off the parliamentary square, if you will, but it will also really help us to empty, for the House of Commons, the Confederation Building, which is critically important as it houses a great number of members of Parliament. It's also critically important for the Senate. It will allow us to empty East Block, so we can fully restore and modernize those two really important buildings.

Once Confederation and East Block are finished, we'll then be able to start to reconsolidate the parliamentary precinct into an integrated campus. Mr. Patrice mentioned key elements, such as tunnel connections, to create an integrated campus for the secure and efficient movement of accredited people, as well as material and goods between the facilities. The vision here is an integrated campus of the Hill and the three city blocks facing it.

We are in the second stage of an international design competition. The final submissions are going to be received in early March. The independent jury, which includes three parliamentarians, will come back together to render a decision on the winning concept. Then that project will really launch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

That brings us to time. I hope that's okay, Ms. Sahota.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

In recent years, large buildings have been constructed while completely ignoring accessibility standards for mobility–impaired persons. Some examples are the installation of push buttons for elevators at a height appropriate for people in wheelchairs, as well as the height of water fountains and door width. I am talking about all the new standards that enable someone in a wheelchair or someone with severe mobility restrictions to move around, both in the House of Commons and in public spaces.

Have you ensured adherence to this very important value from the project's inception to its completion?

[Rob Wright]

Thank you for the question, Madam Chair.

Accessibility is at the heart of this restoration and modernization program. We are working with a group of accessibility experts. This is a key element in the design of Centre Block and the Parliament welcome centre and, of course, of other projects that will be created in the future, such as block 2, which we discussed earlier.

I could ask Ms. Garrett to say more about that, but I can assure you that accessibility is at the heart of this project.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Madam Chair, do I have a bit of time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

You have one minute left.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

That's great.

I would like to ask one last question. We hope that, in a dozen years, women will make up 50% of elected members in the House of Commons and that, today, both men and women want to fulfill their role as parents, be they elected representatives or not.

Have family–friendly spaces and changing tables been planned in men's and women's washrooms, so that elected members and the public can come to Parliament with their young children? That would help provide elected members with the support they need to fulfill their parliamentary duties while balancing work and family life.

[Darrell de Grandmont]

Thank you for the question.

We have planned family–friendly spaces, and there will always be a family room in Centre Block. We are still consulting members to find out what their needs are when it comes to Centre Block.

We have talked about lobbies, halls on both floors. We are seeing an increase in the number of members, and we also know that family–friendly spaces are necessary in Centre Block. That is absolutely part of our discussions, and we have already planned a few rooms.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

I now give the floor to Ms. Blaney for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Through you, Madam Chair, I guess my question is around workers.

I see that you have something in here about how many jobs have been created. I really appreciate that, but I also heard a lot in the presentation about specialized skills and all of the different things. I'm curious about how it's going. Are you having any challenges around hiring people who have those specialized skills?

There's another part of that question. Is there any information that lets us know about the diversity of the workforce? Is there any sort of investment in making sure that we're providing opportunities to diverse populations, to women and so forth, and is that represented anywhere in your information?