Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I'm pleased to be here with you today.
Ms. Blaney is with her constituents. As you know, her riding covers half of Vancouver Island. She often has no access to Internet or wireless service when working with some constituents.
I'll start by saying that all the parties want to prevent foreign interference in our elections. In addition to the revelations in The Globe and Mail, we need only think of Moscow's interference in the 2016 U.S. election, with the involvement of the Internet Research Agency or foreign interference in the Brexit referendum. Without a doubt, the committee needs to study this matter.
The motion put forward today is quite detailed and wasn't provided in advance, contrary to our usual practice, which generally gives us a few days to reflect and comment before we propose amendments. The motion is quite broad and touches on many aspects. In my opinion, it doesn't help the committee understand what it needs to do.
Even if I really enjoy listening to Mr. Berthold and Mr. Cooper, they spent nearly half the time available for this meeting just proposing this motion. In my opinion, that's not an attempt to find a solution or put in place the fundamentals to extend the study. To that end, I must start by saying that I'm in favour of extending the study.
This approach leaves much to be desired. In my opinion, it's critical to propose a motion that seeks to identify possible solutions, rather than starting a debate.
I believe very strongly, as does Rachel Blaney, who is currently with her constituents in the north part of Vancouver Island, out of Internet range, that we have to crack down on the kind of foreign interference involved in Trump's election in 2016, or in Brexit, which was pushed by Conservatives. These are all cases that I think illustrate the importance of the issue. Given the fact that this motion, which is so detailed, was tabled at committee rather than a couple of days in advance, which is our normal way of proceeding, and that almost half of the time for speaking was taken up by Mr. Berthold and Mr. Cooper—I don't object to their taking that time—obviously the intent was more to speak than to find a resolution.
I will have some proposals to put on the table in a moment. It is something that this committee has tackled with the seriousness that it entails, that it demands. This is extremely important. I was disappointed by Mr. Cooper because, despite the fact that he spoke very eloquently, he neglected to point out something that I think is vitally important. It comes from the Globe and Mail article that said that Liberal and Conservative candidates were favoured by Beijing, according to a national security source.
This issue is not limited to one party. This involves a number of parties, a couple of parties, both Liberals and Conservatives, whose candidates have been targeted, apparently, by foreign interference. Now, Mr. Cooper didn't comment about how the Conservative Party has reacted to this. Were those Conservative candidates who were allegedly supported, according to the news article, elected? We don't know this. We know nothing regarding the extent to which the Conservative Party headquarters has followed up to find out who those candidates were.
This is something that is of equal importance. When you have two parties that have had candidates supported, it is something that we all must take seriously. It shouldn't be partisan finger pointing, because ultimately we all have a responsibility in making sure that our electoral system functions, and that it functions free from foreign interference. In this very long motion that was tabled at the beginning of the meeting, there are a number of elements that I support.
First is extending the study. I think that is something we can all agree on.
For additional meetings, there's no difficulty there. The size and scope of the Globe article demands that this committee, though I know it's a very hard-working committee, schedule those additional meetings.... Whether that's next week or in subsequent weeks, I think that's a matter of discussion, but it is something that we favour.
As far as having the ministers who testified previously back to testify on the new revelations is concerned, that is something I support as well. Having foreign ministers is something I support.
Now, the extensive aspect touching on staff and documents.... I don't feel that the motion deals with the document issue in the serious way in which it needs to be treated, and I find that unfortunate. Because of the length of the initial two speeches, I don't know if we'll have time to work through that today.
I caution on the issue of inviting staff. I wanted to cite a number of people for the record, Madam Chair, if you'll permit me. Around the issue of political staff, as opposed to having ministers being brought forward to testify, I support having ministers come forward to explain what they did and what they knew, and what actions they've taken to ensure that this never happens again.
First, I will read a quotation from a former House leader, who said:
There is a clear case to be made that the accountability of political staff ought to be satisfied through ministers. Ministers ran for office and accepted the role and responsibility of being a minister. Staff did not.
I'm quoting from Jay Hill, a former Conservative government House leader.
Secondly, another member said:
Mr. Speaker, we believe that cabinet ministers are responsible for what happens in their names and responsible to Parliament. This is called ministerial responsibility and it is one of the oldest traditions here in our country.
The Liberal leader wants to do away with this tradition. Instead, he wants to import a foreign U.S. committee system that is used as a political weapon to bully, to intimidate, and to humiliate opponents, something that I believe should never happen.
Ministerial accountability is the reason why cabinet ministers answer questions in question period and it is why they appear before committees to answer for their offices.
We hope that all opposition committee chairs will follow the rules and procedures....
This is the member for Grande Prairie—Mackenzie and the current Conservative deputy whip, speaking about the importance of not involving staff but ensuring ministerial responsibility.
This third quote, I think, is very germane, as well, to this conversation. It is, “The hon. member knows very well that for hundreds of years, the principle of ministerial accountability has been paramount here in the House and in its committees.” This member was speaking, again, about the idea of inviting political staff, rather than ministers.
That final quote is from the member for Carleton, who is currently the leader of the official opposition in the House of Commons, so Conservatives have said very eloquently in the past that we should not have political staff brought forward, and that the issue of ministerial accountability is fundamental.... I agree with them. I agree with them on that.
Therefore, with this very extensive motion that was dumped on this committee with no notice, I would certainly say that for the first four elements I'm in support. For the treatment of documents, I find it is not up to the degree to which we need to treat documents of high sensibility that are related to national security. As far as staff are concerned, I will go with numerous Conservatives who have said very eloquently in the past that it is to the importance of keeping ministers accountable, not staff, that parliamentarians should be directed.
I hope the Conservatives will be willing to work with other members around the table to find a workable solution.
I find it unfortunate that the meeting has gone by and that the first half of the meeting involved the two Conservative movers speaking to the motion rather than working to find that common ground. However, we in this corner of the committee room take very seriously the issue of foreign interference, and we fully support an accounting by those ministers, given this new information, ensuring that we as a committee extend the study to make sure that, ultimately, all of the recommendations lead to a resolution that we will have no suspected, alleged or real interference in any future Canadian elections.
Thank you.