It mentions the 2019 and 2021 federal elections, so that is in fact a 70‑day period. What's more, it is limited to the Chinese regime. At the same time, however, it says that all governments should be looked at as far as diaspora groups go. What’s not clear is whether it’s just for the election periods.
The amendment is badly drafted and does not respect the principle of a national public inquiry. That is why I am against the first part of the amendment.
From what we have as a Conservative amendment, you have to ask what the Conservatives are afraid of.
I'm going to come back to all of the allegations that have come forward about Russian involvement or interference, not just in Canada but also in other jurisdictions. We're already aware of the collusion that took place in the Donald Trump example. We're already aware of the implications in Brexit, in a report that came out following the 2019 election, which also raised concerns about financing at the United Kingdom's Conservative Party.
In Canada, I think it's important to note the concerns that have been raised in the series that was produced in Canada's National Observer, which stated “In January and February of 2022, a large number of public Telegram channels were created or repurposed under the auspices of supporting the “Freedom Convoy”...including some with tens of thousands of members. [These channels] started to feature Russian propaganda intermingled with convoy-related content.
“Eventually, part of this network of Telegram channels effectively became a repository for Russian propaganda”.
The articles that came forward in that series are very disturbing, but there are more, and I could certainly spend hours reading through the concerns that have been raised.
Now I'll reference The Canadian Press. Marie Woolf, on June 8, 2022, wrote about the study that was undertaken by the University of Calgary's School of Public Policy:
An analysis of over six million tweets and retweets—and where they originate from—has found that Canada is being targeted by Russia to influence public opinion here.
The study by the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy found that huge numbers of tweets and retweets about the war in Ukraine can be traced back to Russia and China, with even more tweets expressing pro-Russian sentiment traced to the United States.
Assistant professor Jean-Christophe Boucher said in an interview that the Russian “state apparatus” is associated with many accounts tweeting in Canada, and is influencing posts that are retweeted, liked or repeated by different accounts again and again.
The study found that “in 'the Canadian Twitter ecosystem' discussing the war, around 25 per cent of the accounts were spreading pro-Russian talking points. ... The analysis of the content of the tweets found similar pro-Russian views expressed among right-wing figures and their supporters in the U.S. and Canada.”
Professor Boucher said that “supporters of the 'Freedom Convoy' and anti-vaccine movement, some of whom may not realize they have been digesting messaging originating from Russia, were also tweeting messages in support of the invasion of Ukraine.”
We have heard testimony here at this committee. I will cite November 3, when Mr. Marcus Kolga said the following:
Russian information and influence operations are persistent and they are growing. They do not turn on and off with election cycles and have intensified during the course of the Russian invasion of Ukraine....
Russia's primary and full-time focus is to undermine and destabilize our democracy by exploiting the most polarizing issues of the day. ...These attacks affect our political environment and choices every day, not just during election periods.
The motion that I moved for a public inquiry, which seems to have support generally, is that we launch a national public inquiry into allegations of foreign interference in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections and in Canada's democratic system, including but not limited to allegations of interference in general elections by foreign governments.
This isn't something that anyone should oppose, so it's perplexing to me that the Conservatives are trying to gut the sense of concern that many Canadians are feeling about foreign interference. I believe it's disrespectful to a million and a half Canadians of Ukrainian origin who have been subjected to these campaigns that we have been talking about. These are campaigns that have been identified, as we heard earlier today, by CSIS and other agencies. Why would the Conservatives want to strip out the possibility of a national public inquiry that includes foreign interference not just from Beijing, which I agree is important, but also Russia, Iran and other players that are hostile to Canada and to Canada's democracy?
This is where the contradiction takes place. We have this amendment that strips out the whole principal clause and limits the ability of the commissioner or commissioners to do anything beyond the allegations of foreign interference by Beijing, and only in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections, which is a period, as I've mentioned, of 70 days. Then, in the same breath, the Conservatives say that the inquiry can investigate abuse of “diaspora groups by hostile foreign governments” writ large. Is it just during the 70 days? Is it for the last few years? I mean, the incomprehension of how this was drafted is unbelievable to me.
I find it disturbing that Conservatives want to play a game around something as important as a national public inquiry, but that reinforces the point I made initially: that these kinds of games and the circus that Conservatives love to engage in are not things that will give answers to Canadians. I believe Canadians from coast to coast to coast have a sincere interest in getting answers to questions and getting answers for the allegations of potential violations of the Elections Act and how serious that is. We heard from Elections Canada earlier today that if the allegations are right about Beijing's support, potentially up to half a dozen violations of the Canada Elections Act could have occurred. This is serious. These are criminal activities, criminal violations that are alleged, and obviously the national public inquiry has to go there.
With all the evidence I've just read into the record about Russia and the Putin dictatorship's attempt to have an impact on our democracy, I don't understand why the Conservatives are afraid of a public inquiry that actually examines that interference. They have these two contradictory amendments. One says, yes, go to the “diaspora groups by hostile foreign governments”—that's what the Conservatives wrote—but, oh, don't touch anything with foreign interference, aside from Beijing and aside from those very strict two 35-day election periods. It is very strange to me that they offered this amendment.
I have expressed my opposition to that amendment.
I have heard my colleagues, both Conservatives and Liberals, speak about the naming in terms of the inquiry, giving necessary powers to the inquiry and not necessarily spelling out who would be invited. I certainly would accept these as amendments. I think that would help to move us to a consensus. I do believe that we need to investigate abuse of diaspora groups, but that means the original principal clause that I moved, which is ensuring we address foreign interference by any sources in Canada's democratic systems, “including but not limited to allegations of interference in general elections by foreign governments”.
Does the inquiry have the power to order a review? Absolutely: That's a normal term of reference, and there can be provisions made for national security. I don't accept the argument that terms of reference might in some way be threatening to national security.
I also agree that having the individual or individuals heading the inquiry selected by unanimous agreement by the House leaders does make sense. We do this often, Madam Chair. We've done this for a variety of issues, most recently even in the appointment of the interim Clerk of the House of Commons.
This is something that is a regular practice. What it actually ensures is that each party has a veto, so, yes, it's true that it would mean the Conservatives might have a veto. It would also mean that the Liberals have a veto on that, and it could be somebody who is beyond reproach. I think we would find many names that we could offer—all of us—to ensure that this inquiry is done properly.
Finally, that this inquiry not stop the committee study, that's really up to the committee. I don't see the appropriateness of that. The committee can decide to continue the study or not. That depends on committee business. That's not up to any of us, Madam Chair. I don't see that as a clause that is particularly useful. It's more for cosmetic purposes.
Ultimately, what really offends me in this is that the Conservatives would seek to eliminate a proper investigation and answers to Canadians beyond that very narrow scope they want to place on this public inquiry. I am not going to vote in favour of their modifications to the first clause. I think it's disrespectful to Ukrainian Canadians and other Canadians who have been impacted by foreign interference beyond Beijing. As well, I think it circumscribes the inquiry to the point where it can't produce the answers that Canadians are looking for.
I'm surprised the Conservatives would put forward such a series of amendments, some of which contradict other amendments, at a time when we really need adults in the room working together so that, hopefully, we can produce this national public inquiry and get answers for Canadians.
Thank you.