Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 30th, 2023

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Okay, thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Ms. Romanado.

Over to you now, Mr. Therrien.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Greetings to the three witnesses who are here with the committee today. I'm very pleased to see you and to find that you get along very well with your neighbours. When riding boundaries are being discussed, it's important for everyone to be on the same page. Otherwise, it becomes more difficult for the members of the commission to agree on things.

Mr. Plamondon, I'm going to briefly summarize what you said, and then allow you to continue. You said that your riding had a demographic shortfall and that this was why there was a proposal to add three municipalities totaling approximately 2,000 inhabitants. However, as a result of the outstanding work done by the current MP, considerable population growth is expected, and it would more than compensate for a deficit of 2,000 people if the change were not made. That's my understanding of it.

Have I given an accurate overview of the numbers in your riding?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

Yes, precisely.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Okay.

Are the people in these three municipalities happy about this?

Do the people in your community feel that we take their comments into consideration?

Do they have the feeling that history is finally on their side and that they are in the right place, or are they saying something else?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

The three municipalities confirmed in writing that they did not want to be annexed to the riding I represent because they have no affinities with it, whether economically, socially or culturally.

As Mr. Berthold and Ms. Bibeau said earlier, the people in these ridings prefer to stay in the social setting that they are accustomed to. These are three magnificent municipalities, but the only reason given for attaching them to my riding was to make up for a population deficit of 2,000. And yet the recent statistics show that the shortfall no longer exists.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Right.

It's clear that the members of the commission may not be aware of some data. Perhaps they don't know about these development statistics. You were right to mention them here, Mr. Plamondon.

As an economist, I know that forecasts are not always accurate. Over the next two years, how many people do you think will be added to the population of the riding you represent?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

I believe that at least 5,000 people will be added.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

So that would compensate for…

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

It would make up the deficit.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

That's right.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

It's mainly the name that I find problematic.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Earlier, you mentioned that several ridings had a name that was longer than the name of the riding you represent.

One of the proposals is to remove the name of the City of Nicolet.

What do the people in your part of the country, Nicolet, think about this idea? How did they react when they heard this?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

All of the towns and cities in the RCM of Nicolet-Yamaska wrote me to say that they were unhappy about removing the name "Nicolet". Residents of the RCM of Bécancour also asked us to make an effort to keep the City of Nicolet in the name because it accurately designates their riding. Even the RCM of Pierre-De Saurel sent me a letter in support of keeping Nicolet in the name.

In the course of all these negotiations, it was never about removing the name of Nicolet. In the final report tabled in the House of Commons, it was all about the riding of Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, to which the name "Odanak" would be added. The Odanak community sent a letter saying that it was not "Odanak" that it wished to add, but rather the name "Abenaki", pronounced and written in the Abenaki language, because there are two Abenaki nations.

The Abenaki are a highly cultured people. One of the top commentators on Radio-Canada in the early years was Mr. Nolet. One of Canada's great opera singers, Mr. O'Bomsawin, comes from the Abenaki nation. There is also the extraordinary Abenaki Museum. In Quebec, the only CEGEP operated by and for indigenous people is located on Abenaki land. People from all the nations go there to study.

It's therefore a nation that is thriving, and it would like us to speak about the Abenaki nation in writing, in the Abenaki language, because its people are developing their language. There is also an Abenaki national anthem. In the various schools, there are many Abenaki songs. Their environment is wonderful.

In the Abenaki language, "Abenaki" Is pronounced "Alnôbak". In their letter, they specify that like they would like to add this name, without replacing Nicolet. The new name of the riding would therefore be "Alnôbak—Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel", or "Aln8bak—Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel", which would be terrific. It would accurately describe the composition of the riding. I have the unanimous support of the riding and our Abenaki friends for this name.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

The name might look a little long, but as you pointed out earlier, there are many ridings with even longer names. The new thrust, which everyone is in favour of, is to add indigenous names to make it clear that these communities are included.

So am I to understand that the name was approved unanimously and had the support of all the people you represent?

Is that right?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

Yes, that's right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mr. Therrien, you're speaking time is over. You will be able to speak again in the second round of questions.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

I'll listen to what you have to say now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Plamondon.

Ms. Blaney, you have the floor now.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Madam Chair, I don't have any questions. I feel that the presentation clarified the list that we need to get to.

I'm sorry, Luc. I have no hard questions for you—maybe later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you very much.

We are now beginning the second round of questions.

You have the floor, Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Berthold, do you think you'll be able to provide the same services to 61 municipalities, as stated in the proposal?

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

We're going to work hard at it. It's not up to us to choose what citizens want, but they can rest easy. Whether they are spread over 50 or 61 municipalities, those we represent are entitled to services, and we will take whatever steps are needed to provide them. That leads me to mention two other things.

I've heard a lot of comments from my colleagues, and two things stood out. As I said earlier, I know that the members of the commission did their work under the act that was in force at the time. I nevertheless feel that we need to take these two things into account when the time comes to work on the next review of the electoral map.

First of all, it would be important to consider the role of regional MPs and the reality of rural ridings, which are growing apace and including more and more municipalities. That's my message to the commission, and also perhaps to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. What role do we want MPs to play on behalf of the citizens they represent?

We are legislators and our duty is to represent a percentage of people, based on the number of votes we received. However, our role has evolved over the years. We now provide a growing number of services to citizens. That needs to be taken into consideration the next time the electoral map is being redrawn. It's important.

Secondly, we could consider a second series of public hearings for any major changes—a term that will have to be defined—being proposed for certain ridings. That would enable this committee and the government to further study proposals that we may not have been able to anticipate nor had the opportunity to study and submit to our citizens.

For example, we never expected the proposal to transfer three municipalities from Compton—Stanstead to the riding of Mégantic—L'Érable. So when the hearings were held in our riding, we hadn't had the opportunity to discuss them. It just happened out of the blue. So the last chance people have to make their voices heard rests with us here today.

I therefore feel that when major changes are proposed, it would be a good idea to hold a short series of public hearings to allow people to state their views. The recommendations would be for our eyes, on the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, because I know that the members of the commission do not have the power to change statutes. We, on the other hand, do. For the next review of the electoral map, it would be worthwhile for all parties to take the time required to think about it.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Plamondon, the riding you represent will no doubt enter the history books in a few months as a result of your longevity in the House of Commons.

How many months away are you from setting the all-time Canadian longevity record for a member of Parliament?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

On September 4, I will have been here for 39 years. I believe the record is held by Mr. Herb Gray, an MP from Ontario who sat for 39 years and seven months. We overlapped. There was also Mr. John Diefenbaker, who sat for 39 years and four months. Another MP sat for 39 years and two months. He was elected in 1867, the first year of Confederation.

If, as expected, there's an election in 2025, I'll enter the record books, but nobody will look at them.