Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 27th, 2023

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Chair, what is the deadline for submitting documents from the community to show that the process is impartial and that the public and the witnesses before us strongly disagree with the commission's proposal? Is it in a week, another two weeks?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Just so we know, basically, for us, up until the eve of the drafting of our report, we would accept information. Anything our committee receives, we send back to the commission in its entirety, regardless of where we stand. Once our report is being drafted—hence why I say “the eve” of drafting—we would not accept stuff after that. Once it's out of our hands, it's out of our hands. We do our job; we take it seriously, and we move on our way. That's where I'm going to leave that, solid.

Go ahead, Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much to the chair and, of course, to our witnesses for being here today.

I will start with you first, Mr. Coteau.

If the City of Toronto maintains the 25 seats, the commissioners would have to adjust their final report, I understand, and cut a riding from another part of the province, if I understand correctly.

I'm wondering. You're proposing this, so where do you suggest the cut be in the rest of the province?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

All the members of Parliament in the city of Toronto—the 24 in the caucus, I should say—advocated for this. It was something that we jointly signed. In addition to that, I have a letter here from all members of council at the City of Toronto, advocating for this—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm sorry, Chair, if I could....

I'm just asking. I hear all the support, and my office has heard about it, so what I'm really asking about is whether, if you're proposing this, it means that the commission has to cut somewhere else. I'm just curious as to whether you have an area that you were hoping to see a riding change to in order to accommodate this.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Actually, if you look at my submission, which you have, I have four recommendations. I can read those recommendations to you. I originally signed the letter with the 24 MPs asking for the 25 seats. My objection here today has four recommendations. They're very specific. They do not include the 25, even though I fully support the 25 as a sitting member in Toronto.

The City of Toronto is 20% of the GDP of this country. There are 252 cranes in operation in the city today. It's the fastest-growing city in all of North America. To remove a seat and cause this disruption to the actual community—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

All right, thank you. I think I have your answer.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

—is a huge challenge for the City of Toronto.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much for that.

I will go to Mr. Oliphant.

I am just wondering how, in your opinion, the Governor's Bridge neighbourhood is distinct from neighbourhoods in Don Valley West, like Bennington Heights and Leaside.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'd like to say two things.

One, Governor's Bridge is divided from the rest of the riding by a large valley. Sociologically, they are part of Rosedale. Economically, the look of the houses and their traffic patterns tend to stay within the Rosedale community.

Bennington Heights could be argued to be situated close enough, even though there is a large green belt between the two. Economically and sociologically, Bennington Heights has always been a bit of an outlier anyway; however, historically Bennington Heights has been in the riding. One could argue that Bennington Heights could also go to University—Rosedale, but it's been there.

I've generally said that the one little island, which is cut off from everything, belongs most appropriately with University—Rosedale. It's about 400 people, about 250 electors. It's 0.05% of the riding. I think it just disrupts, and it doesn't make a disproportional change.

I think it makes sense—they're nice people. I would argue on that, too, with respect to the name, Don Valley South, it doesn't make any sense in the Rosedale area either. Don Valley West barely does, but it could.

The reality is, it's all about perspective on these things. For me, there is a reunification going on of three-quarters of the new part I used to represent when it was Don Valley West. It moved to Don Valley East, and I argued against that at that time. Ten years later, it has been reunited.

I respect the problem that Mr. Coteau is suggesting, too. It's a problem for the commission, and they haven't resolved it appropriately. I hope the committee can look to the future to suggest a process change.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, and I hear the process change request very clearly. We've heard that from a lot of testimony, and I presume very strongly that the committee will be looking into that.

I'll come to Madam Zahid and Mr. McKay. I am just a little concerned because it looks like there is no consensus between all the Scarborough MPs about the final version of the report. From what I understand, two of your colleagues from Scarborough are also Liberal, and they are in favour of the final report.

I'm just wondering how you will provide guidance to the commission to make changes, when there is not really consensus between the MPs.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

As to what I am proposing, the honourable member from Scarborough—Guildwood and the member from Scarborough—Rouge Park totally agree with it. What I am proposing does not make any changes to the ridings of Scarborough North or Scarborough—Agincourt.

What I am proposing will make changes to Scarborough—Guildwood and Scarborough—Rouge Park, so it is really very important that this committee take into consideration the split of the communities of interest, because literally having a boundary at Midland Avenue divides the community of interest into two. It is home to marginalized communities and to new immigrants, like a significant number of Syrian and Afghan refugees who have called that their home. Dividing along Midland Avenue will create confusion for them.

There are a lot of multi-generational homes on both sides of Midland. Those communities rely more on government services, and it will be a huge challenge for those communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

I understand that there are no more comments or questions from the Conservatives.

Madame Gaudreau, Ms. Blaney just completed, so maybe something will come to mind. I'll reserve your right of refusal.

I know there is a quick question from Mrs. Romanado, followed by Mr. Fergus.

Go ahead, Mrs. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank all of the members for coming today.

Mr. Coteau, I just want to say that I have been hearing from folks in your riding, and I want to thank you for coming today and being their voice. They have been telling us that they didn't have an opportunity, obviously, to voice their opinions, so thank you for that.

I have a quick question for Mr. Oliphant.

You mentioned to us that you would suggest that a portion of the riding go back to University—Rosedale. Have you had a conversation with the current MP there? You didn't mention whether or not she was in agreement.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

She is in agreement.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

That's perfect. Thank you so much.

That was the only question I had. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through you to Mr. Coteau, those of us from outside Ontario, or outside Toronto, might not understand the nuances of Scarborough versus North York. I was wondering if you could—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Isn't that the centre of the planet?

[An hon. member]

Never mind the planet; it's the centre of the universe.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Can you explain why this is so important for people on both sides of Victoria Park?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

You know, the one thing that everyone adjacent to that line and all the MPs who signed the document—I think 24 MPs signed it—agreed is that this line should be respected. It is a traditional line. Again, it's our police divisions, our schools and our community-based organizations. Everything is aligned based on those traditional lines. This line has been around for 100-plus years as a border separating Scarborough and North York. If you come into my community, the architecture is different. The planning was different. The schools look different. Everything is different between those two communities.

I think the one thing the committee can take away from this entire process is that everyone agrees that the Victoria Park line should be maintained. Everyone I'm aware of who is here today, including MP Han Dong and others, agrees that it should be maintained. There are big differences between the two communities. If you walked into North York or Scarborough and asked the people what they thought about breaking down that border and building new ridings like Scarborough Centre—Don Valley East, they would be fundamentally against it on both sides. I would say that it would be over 90%, without question.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Before I go to Mr. Gerretsen next, Mr. Dong, you're not actually allowed to ask yourself a question, but yes, if you want to make a quick comment, go ahead.

[Han Dong, Independent, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I just want to add my support to what Mr. Coteau was saying. There is something called the “community council”. I know that after amalgamation, everyone looked at Toronto and said there was no boundary, but in fact, when the local councillors are having discussions, they belong to a certain community council. In North York there is a community council, because this was their city councillor...and that's how they decide how to allocate resources to support services in different neighbourhoods.

If we don't respect the traditional boundary of Victoria Park, that will cause great challenges to the city of Toronto in terms of the community council's makeup.

I just want to add that point for consideration.