Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 27th, 2023

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Have you advised the Minister of Foreign Affairs, since she is taking your advice on that question, to expel Beijing diplomats?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, I work very closely with Minister Joly. I work very closely with all my colleagues in government. We will continue to be vigilant when it comes to combatting foreign interference, using all the authorities, some of them new, that the Conservatives have opposed.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, no arrests, no charges; the FBI have laid arrests, but none have been laid in Canada with respect to the illegal police stations.

Since you have failed to expel diplomats, and for all intents and purposes refuse to answer that question, in the face of interference in not one but two federal elections and the operation of at least eight illegal police stations, will you at the very least rebuke the Beijing regime?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, I would strongly encourage Mr. Cooper to listen to the words I am saying. The RCMP have taken decisive action to shut down the so-called police stations.

We've also earmarked approximately $50 million in budget 2023 to increase their capacity to combat foreign interference. It's quite clear that the Conservatives are going to vote against that provision—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Madam Chair—

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

—which will actually be counter to our national security.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Madam Chair, I asked a very specific question of the minister. The minister didn't answer my question. That's consistent with the pattern we've seen in the last several minutes.

I will invite you again, Minister, right here, right now, to rebuke the Beijing regime. Will you do that, Minister?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, Canada is among the strongest voices when it comes to rebuking any authoritarian regime and anyone who stands against human rights—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Then just do it now, Minister.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

—and we'll continue to do that.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Then just do it now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I'm sorry, but I have to raise a point of order. Clearly, Mr. Cooper is not abiding by the normal rules of decorum in the committee, whereby you don't talk over the witness while they're trying to answer the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I see that.

I think the minister was trying to answer your comment. I know that you don't feel that way, and that's okay.

I am going to give Minister Mendicino 10 seconds, and then we'll pass on the last 20 seconds to Mr. Cooper.

Go ahead, please.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the concerns about how we are protecting our institutions, and also, again, condemning any violation of human rights. Canada has a very proud and strong and record on that front.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

The minister couldn't even see fit to rebuke the Beijing regime for election interference and for operating eight police stations in Canada. This is a government that is very weak on Beijing.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I couldn't disagree more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Maybe I'll try to do the Conservatives, Mr. Cooper and the minister a favour. After that interaction, we were able to learn a little about the steps the government has taken. I know that many Canadians learned about these so-called police stations in the news. However, it was also learned that Canada is not alone in the struggle, and that over 53 countries report about 102 Chinese overseas police services centres.

I'm wondering if the minister wants to add anything else to the steps and the measures that were taken by the government.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, through you to Ms. Sahota, first, I appreciate the question. It allows me to expand on how we are combatting foreign interference.

I talked about how we have created new authorities and powers for our national security intelligence agencies, through Bill C-59, that bestow upon them the ability to address and to mitigate any potential threats to our national security.

We've also put into place a protocol that applies specifically during elections. It is called the critical election incident public protocol. It is applied by our most senior non-partisan, professional public servants, who have been charged with the responsibility of receiving information and intelligence as it relates to any foreign interference that could pose a threat to an election. It is applied when they inform and educate Canadians about that work.

This is a protocol that has served Canadians well. However, I would also point out to Ms. Sahota that we are not resting on our laurels. We are building on the recommendations put forward by two distinguished Canadians, Mr. Judd and Morris Rosenberg. I know that my colleague, Minister LeBlanc, has reported recently to the Prime Minister on how we are advancing recommendations to strengthen the mechanisms we have in place to protect all of our institutions, and most especially our elections.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you for that, Minister.

In that and in your opening statement, you mentioned several tools that have been put in place. I think the difficulty that Canadians face is how the average Canadian is able to perhaps utilize these mechanisms put in place if they feel that they're victims of state-backed intimidation. You mentioned the $16 million in the budget. I'm really interested in particular in how this would protect diaspora communities, whom we often see being intimidated by these types of tactics.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, that is an excellent point.

In the context of the consultations I am doing right now to create a foreign influence transparency regime, I've heard directly from numerous community leaders and diaspora about their concerns around being stigmatized, marginalized and subjected to intimidation, harassment, abuse or worse.

That is why it is very important, in this work, that we are connecting those Canadians with the appropriate agencies within government to provide them with support. It is only by shining a light on where these threats occur and being transparent about how authorities are exercised by the various agencies, whether they be national security or conventional law enforcement, that we can maintain that trust and that confidence in our institutions.

That's exactly what I have been doing. I have been travelling across the country, connecting Canadians with the appropriate authorities so that they understand how we are applying those tools, and also how we can evolve the tool kit in general when it comes to combatting foreign interference.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

I'm glad you're going out into the communities. I look forward to your continuing that work and letting us know the results.

Over the last few months, Minister, we've heard a lot of accusations regarding elected officials. We've seen on social media vile accusations against senators and MPs of Asian descent that would make McCarthyism proud.

How is this type of polarization of the issue counterproductive to our common objectives of protecting democracy?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That's a very important question.

As much as we need to be vigilant against the threat that is posed by foreign interference, we also have to be vigilant against the kind of stereotyping, stigmatization and overt racism that we have seen throughout our history. We need to be vigilant against both, because both are threats to our democracy.

Even as we expand our tool kit to protect our national security, our democratic institutions, we also have to be sure that we bring Canadians along, and the experiences of Canadians. It does inform by having this debate, and having this discussion. It is my commitment, and the commitment of the officials at this table and the government, that as we create new authorities, powers and tools, they will be exercised responsibly in accordance with the law and the charter.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Minister.