Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 27th, 2023

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have another question that I wanted to ask you.

In the first mandate of this government, Bill C-76 was introduced, which, by the way, the Conservatives voted against. That bill had a lot of teeth in order to combat foreign interference.

Could you comment on some of the measures that were included in that bill that were opposed by the Conservatives?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Perhaps the most important new authority created under Bill C-76 was that it made it illegal for foreign contributors to provide additional funding to third parties that may then, in turn, try to support certain parties, candidates and the like. That showed our ongoing vigilance in wanting to protect the integrity of our elections, and it really closed any potential loopholes that may have remained in place before that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

If I understand that correctly, had that bill not passed, those loopholes with respect to foreign money coming into Canada would still be open.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That's exactly correct.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Do you have any thoughts as to why any political party would not be in favour of that?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I can't explain why the Conservatives would have voted against that provision, but I will say that it is consistent with their pattern of voting against the creation not only of new authorities that are afforded to our national security and law enforcement partners, but equally the other new mechanisms that have raised the bar of transparency, like NSICOP and NSIRA. They voted against those as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Minister, earlier this week, Fred DeLorey, who was the campaign manager for the Conservative Party in 2021, told us that the briefings given to his party went more or less one way. In other words, the party gave information to the intelligence agencies, but the information did not flow the other way.

What struck me most was when he said that he received information about legislative gaps that prevented, for example, parties from taking concrete action to resolve situations of interference.

Do you agree with the assertion that there are currently legislative gaps that prevent concrete action?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I think the comments of political party leaders who have already given evidence regarding the last election should be studied very carefully. That is why my fellow minister Mr. LeBlanc has written a new report, which has already been submitted to the Prime Minister, in co-operation with the clerk, to build on all the other measures that we have in place, such as the protocol. I think the protocol is a critical tool in the context of elections, because it is the mechanism by which we can communicate threats received during electoral periods.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. DeLorey already reported on the problems with the act at least a year and a half ago. I can't believe you weren't made aware of them at that time. A year and a half ago, then, alarm bells were already ringing. It may only be a year and a half until the next election.

Why are these legislative gaps not being addressed? For example, the government could be taking concrete action to combat interference, rather than just providing briefing sessions.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I share the honourable member's concerns. I just want to add that, in the report Mr. LeBlanc submitted to the Prime Minister, there is a proposal to review the authorities and powers under the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act. This is an opportunity for the government to work with you and other opposition members. Yes, this is an urgent matter—I know that—but there are concrete recommendations we can address.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Among the recommendations we heard was the creation of an independent office to investigate foreign policy activities on Canadian soil, similar to the Office of the Auditor General of Canada.

I would like to hear your views on the potential creation of such an office, with powers separate from those of CSIS and the RCMP, for example.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

This is an important issue. It relates to the creation of a position of national coordinator, which I've already mentioned. Indeed, we are in the process of putting in place other recommendations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Madam Blaney is next.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a couple of last questions.

I know that the consultation process that's happening with the foreign agent registry ends—correct me if I'm wrong—around May 9. If that's the case, I'm wondering if you could give the committee a bit of an outline on what the next steps will be and what the timeline is.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, through you to Ms. Blaney, on May 9 we will close the current formal consultation. The next steps will include publishing a “what we heard” report to capture the conversations that I've had and that my officials have had. I also would point out that there is a website where we are receiving submissions. A collating of the main themes of feedback will be published in that report.

Thereafter, Madam Chair, what I would say to Ms. Blaney is that we hope to come in fairly short order with a proposal around the creation of this tool.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

In terms of my next question, I'm an MP who represents a more rural and remote region of Canada, and the accessibility of information can sometimes be a bit of a challenge.

When it comes to misinformation, one of the things that concern me greatly is that a lot of our local newspapers are really struggling to continue to find ways to fund themselves, because the world is changing, yet they are a trusted resource for folks. I'm just wondering, in terms of addressing misinformation, what are the strategies around really meaningfully doing that in communities that may be losing their local paper? My region has not, but other regions have, and there's a standard of information there that is not necessarily the case online.

There are also communities that do not have Internet accessibility. That is a challenge. Also, just for different age ranges, some folks who are elderly may not be able to get onto a computer, because that's not something they're interested in. My grandmother was absolutely convinced that she would never learn how to use a computer.

When we lose those trusted resources of newspapers in local small communities, how do we assure people that they have access to information that is actually legitimate and safe for them to understand and believe?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, I would offer to Ms. Blaney the opportunity to have her grandmother perhaps speak to my mother-in-law, who was initially resistant but is now very proficient. I'm happy to do that.

If I may be permitted perhaps one brief minute—I'm happy to stretch my time, Madam Chair, to accommodate—there are two things I would say. One, it is important that we continue to educate Canadians on disinformation. For rural, that means continuing access to broadband. We hear you on that. I think more importantly we've seen some very troubling trends around the attack on the role that media play, including the CBC and Radio-Canada. That's fundamentally wrong. They are a pillar of our democracy.

I think it's important that we also recognize that our work as parliamentarians has to include all of our democratic institutions, including the role that media play.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Calkins, who will be followed by Mr. Turnbull.

We'll take you up on that offer, Mr. Mendicino. That would just bring us to a full hour from when you joined us. That's what we were asking of your time, so thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, in your opening remarks you spoke about your so-called robust measures. We've heard numerous witnesses who have appeared before this committee talk about numerous incidents in numerous ridings, where information was sent into the robust measure processes that you put in place. Have those robust measures ever triggered a public notice in any of the campaigns in any of the ridings in the last two elections?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, I'm confident that the non-partisan public servants—

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Madam Chair—

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

—who exercised their discretion under this protocol have done so in a way that has protected the interest of our elections. I would also point out that the elections in 2019 and 2021 have been certified as free and fair.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I have a short of amount of time, Minister. It was a yes-or-no question. I'll just take that as a no.

Have your robust measures ever resulted in any diplomats being expelled? We've had actual records of diplomats from Beijing actually publicly taking credit—publicly taking credit—for changing the outcomes of the elections in at least two ridings. Have any diplomats under your so-called robust measures been expelled, yes or no?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam—