Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 11th, 2023

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Byrne, for appearing here today.

I think Canadians are astounded at the level of interference that has come to light from Beijing, interference involving attacking and intimidating a sitting member of Parliament and potentially other members of Parliament, setting up illegal police stations and attacking our democracy in not one but two federal elections. It is now well established, based upon reporting by both The Globe and Mail and Global News, based upon their review of CSIS documents, that Beijing conducted a vast campaign of interference in the 2019 election campaign involving clandestine funding and the support of at least 11 candidates. We know that Beijing interfered in the 2021 election for the purpose of seeing the Liberal Party re-elected. The Prime Minister received multiple briefings, going back to as early as February 2020, about Beijing's interference in the 2019 election, so well in advance of the 2021 election when Beijing interfered again.

In the face of those briefings, the Prime Minister sat on it, took no meaningful action and kept Canadians in the dark, despite the advice of CSIS that the best way to combat foreign interference is through sunlight and transparency.

Based on everything we have seen over the past few months—that is truly astounding—can you, as the former deputy chief of staff to Prime Minister Harper, comment on how the government has handled this and how Prime Minister Harper, based on your experience working with him, would have handled this type of interference?

[Jenni Byrne]

I believe that, had Prime Minister Harper been given these allegations, they would have been made public, and they would have been acted upon. If you've seen how Prime Minister Harper handled things, for example, sending the Iranian delegation home, shutting down the embassy in 2012, that's how Prime Minister Harper handled things when he was briefed by CSIS.

As the former deputy chief of staff and national campaign director both in the 2011 campaign and the 2015 campaign, I was never at one point briefed on any foreign interference leading into both of those elections.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I think you made an important point about Iran because we were seeing, back 10-plus years ago, the Iranian regime targeting Iranian Canadians and interfering in our domestic affairs. They were using accredited diplomats to orchestrate that interference, and Prime Minister Harper shut down the entire embassy. He sent all of them home, back to Tehran.

By contrast, we have a Liberal government that has turned a blind eye to Iran's interference, notwithstanding that the IRGC shot down PS752. These Liberals, despite a vote of this House of Commons in 2018 to designate the IRGC as a terrorist entity, haven't seen fit to do that. As a result, the IRGC is able to recruit, raise funds and intimidate Iranian Canadians.

Maybe you would wish to elaborate on that.

[Jenni Byrne]

You're 100% right, and I'm very cognizant of the work that the Conservative caucus, led by Melissa Lantsman, has done in terms of bringing awareness and pushing forward the Liberal government to list the IRGC as a terrorist entity, which would be the right and proper thing to do. Frankly, in light of what we have seen over the last three or four months in terms of their dragging their feet in terms of investigation into China, it's also very perplexing to me that they don't. It's a very simple thing to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization, and it's shocking that they have not done so up until this point.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Why do you think that is?

[Jenni Byrne]

I don't know. I guess you should ask them.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Very good.

What advice would you have given the Prime Minister had CSIS briefed you with warnings that a candidate running for the Conservative Party was part of a foreign interference network?

[Jenni Byrne]

My recommendation, had I been briefed on that, would have been that the person no longer be a candidate for the Conservative Party of Canada.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

By contrast, we know this Prime Minister was briefed about a candidate who was part of a foreign interference network. The Prime Minister turned a blind eye to that and allowed that candidate to run. That candidate was later elected as a member of Parliament.

What do you think of that?

[Jenni Byrne]

I think it's an abdication of responsibility in terms of protecting the electoral integrity of the election to be briefed on something and not act on it.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Madam Chair, I think this further underscores a Prime Minister who doesn't take foreign interference seriously, whether that interference comes from Beijing, Tehran or other hostile foreign states.

[Jenni Byrne]

Yes, 100%....

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mrs. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Through you, I'd like to thank the witness for being with us today.

Ms. Byrne, we heard from a former intelligence officer today, in a previous panel, that there is evidence of attempts at foreign interference that go back decades. From Prime Minister Mulroney to the current Prime Minister, there have been attempts at foreign interference. You just mentioned that, in your time as deputy chief of staff, you were never briefed on attempts at foreign interference.

Did I understand that correctly?

[Jenni Byrne]

That is correct.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

How could it be that the former deputy chief of staff was not briefed at all by CSIS about attempts at foreign interference, when CSIS intelligence officers have testified there were attempts?

[Jenni Byrne]

I can't speak to that.

I can tell you with all certainty that I was never briefed on foreign interference. I know Mr. Morrison, one of the former security advisers, said that foreign interference has increased significantly over the last few years, but I think it's even more important that there be a public inquiry, which can go back—

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I'd like to stop you, because I have very limited time and want to share my time with other colleagues.

In your capacity as co-deputy chief of staff, you would have been privy to the mandate letters of ministers. Could you confirm whether any mandate letters for any ministers' parliamentary secretaries or others had any reference to foreign interference and combatting foreign interference?

[Jenni Byrne]

The last mandate letters would have been back.... A cabinet shuffled. It would have been in 2011. I was not working in the Prime Minister's Office, but I have no recollection of whether or not they included foreign interference.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I'm going to turn my time over to Mr. Turnbull, who also has some questions.

Thank you.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Ms. Byrne.

Given your connection to the current Conservative leader, can you tell us why Mr. Poilievre chose not to do a single thing to strengthen our democratic institutions and protect against this threat when he was the minister of democratic reform?

[Jenni Byrne]

As I said, there were no.... We were not briefed on any threats, but I think it's—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

You're saying there were no threats back when Pierre Poilievre was—

[Jenni Byrne]

As I said, not that I was briefed on....