Evidence of meeting #81 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was intelligence.
A video is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I'm well aware that you're waiting to see what the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs recommends. Nevertheless, considering everything the committee has heard so far, I imagine you have some sense of the measures that will be taken right away.
Can you share some of what your action plan will cover to help us turn the corner, and really counter foreign interference attempts, threats and so forth?
Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons
Our plan is to start off with an initial series of briefs to the members of Parliament and to follow up with regular awareness sessions on any developments relating to national security and/or foreign interference.
More importantly, when the members are first elected to the House, we want to beef up our member orientation program and inform them of these concerns right at the start, as they're starting their duties as members of Parliament, and not wait a year or two and brief them after something may have happened.
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I think I will go back to the law clerk.
Thank you, Mr. Bédard, for your patience with me. If I understand this correctly, from what I've heard from the other testimony, you could receive the information. You feel you have the security clearance. I guess what I'm trying to get clarity on is this: How would you identify what is appropriate to redact? Have you done any research on how other countries that we receive information on do this? Is this a practice?
One concern I have is that if we're doing a practice that doesn't make sense to our partners, it may limit their feelings of comfort to share information with us. That is a significant challenge around national security. When I'm making decisions, I really try, especially on these issues, to not be partisan but to be very mindful of the role that we all take to support the well-being and health of all Canadians. As we move through this process, I am just trying to understand that.
If you could answer that question, it would really support me in understanding what thoughtfulness I need to take as things come before me.
Interim Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons
Thank you for the question.
In terms of practices in other jurisdictions, I'm not aware of any similar practices where the law clerk's office or its equivalent is asked to make redactions. That said, as I mentioned earlier, this practice of having the administration, be it the law clerk or the clerk of the committee, redact documents is a new practice in the Canadian Parliament. We didn't have the opportunity to do deep research in other jurisdictions to see if there are other jurisdictions that have a similar mandate.
In terms of how we would proceed with the redactions, as I indicated, we will rely on proposed redactions, provided that any order for the production of documents includes also the requirement to propose redactions as well as the ability to speak with the providers of the documents so that we can get the proper context to assess the sensitive nature of the information—and also, in case of doubt, err on the side of caution.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
That was two minutes and 40 seconds. The beep didn't go off, but thank you for being you, Ms. Blaney.
Go ahead, Mr. Cooper. You have exactly five minutes.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Madam Chair, I will be moving the following motion:
That, in relation to its order of reference of Wednesday, May 10, 2023, concerning the intimidation campaign orchestrated by Wei Zhao against the Member for Wellington—Halton Hills and other Members, the Committee invite, to appear within 10 days,
a. Sheila Block, counsel to Special Rapporteur David Johnston, on her own, for two hours;
b. Valérie Gervais, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, RKESTRA, on her own, for one hour; and
c. Don Guy and Brian Topp, founding partners, GT&Co, together on a panel, for two hours.
The motion has been distributed to members in both official languages.
Through you, Madam Chair, I will now speak briefly to the motion.
Since his appointment as special rapporteur, there have been troubling questions of conflict—
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
I have a point of order, Chair.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Cooper.
I just checked my emails. I have not received the motion. I'm just checking to see when that's coming. I couldn't retain everything, so it would be helpful for me, as we discuss this motion, to actually have it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Mr. Cooper, you don't have the floor. When I give you the floor, you have the floor. We know how this works.
I'm glad you're smiling and finding it entertaining. I don't.
Regarding the people who run the House of Commons, do we need them here for this or can they get back to doing what they need to do?
This is a regular occurrence. We invite witnesses. People have questions lined up, and then.... I don't even know what it is you think you are doing, Mr. Cooper, because we can function. These are democratic institutions, for goodness' sake, people. This is not a different—
I have the floor, Mr. Cooper. We don't push the button, as I've said, because of interpretation and the people who provide us with both official languages.
Ms. Blaney, do you have it now?
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
I just received it. Thank you so much, and I apologize for disrupting the process.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
I appreciate that. You didn't disrupt the process.
I'm going to give the floor back to Mr. Cooper.
Mr. Turnbull, I know that you have questions, and I will do my best.
I also will just note that we're not new here. We know that resources are limited. We know that we don't have extra resources today. I went around, and I said the first panel is going to go over by five minutes. We're going to keep everyone here tight. We gave everyone who is helping us function that information, and then there's just this whatever happening.
Go ahead on a point of order, Ms. Blaney.
NDP
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First of all, I think it would be appropriate that our panel of witnesses be dismissed.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Can Mr. Turnbull have his five minutes? He's on the list of people who are supposed to be asking questions.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Well, no, I think we should be dealing with this motion. This takes—
Liberal
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
—precedence, so I'm prepared to.... I would like to deal with this motion, but you asked if they could be dismissed. I'm saying that's fine with me.
Liberal
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I have lots of questions I could ask, but I realize what the time is and the importance of getting this motion debated and voted upon.
Liberal