Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 24th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm pausing.

I don't know about the intentions of any member. However, I will tell you that I am the child of immigrants, and when we're talking about the security of our country and are giving addresses and information, I question some of what we're doing right here.

I'm here on a question of privilege, chairing the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, because one of my fellow colleagues, who I might not share a political stripe with, was concerned about their safety. The Speaker of the House of Commons sent this to our committee to do this work, and I take this very seriously. You can hear it in the tremor of my voice.

I have experienced stuff in this country that I hope nobody else has to. I would just ask that we, as honourable members—and, by default of being elected, we are honourable members—be mindful as to the work we are doing and why we are doing it.

I'm going to resume this committee, but I will say that we need to remember why we're here and to not be short-sighted.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Minister, do you accept the principle of ministerial responsibility?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Absolutely.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Absolutely, and consistent with that, do you accept that the buck stops with you as minister—not your officials, not the director of CSIS, with you?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I believe in responsibility, and I believe taking responsibility means fixing things that don't go well in your department, and in this case, that information was not shared and it should have been, so steps have been taken now to remedy that.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You have spent this entire meeting throwing the director of CSIS under the bus, throwing your deputy minister under the bus. Everyone is responsible but you, Minister.

Minister, you failed, and you failed colossally.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Mr. Cooper, I simply disagree with your characterization. I am not throwing anyone under the bus. I'm explaining what happened and, in this case, what did not happen that should have happened.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Members, the beep didn't happen, but the time did come up. We are going to do the last five-minute round.

For anybody who helps in the functioning of the House of Commons, we'll go about four minutes past one o'clock.

Five minutes go to you, Mr. Gerretsen, through the chair.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Allow me to read what Mr. Blair said on June 1 in the PROC meeting, because it differs wildly from the characterization the Conservatives are trying to attribute to Mr. Blair.

He said:

Allow me to clarify that the information was not shared with me. It was authorized by CSIS to be shown to me, but they determined.... I would leave that question as one that perhaps you might want to put [out] to the director. The director determined that [it] was not information the minister needed to know, so I was never notified of the existence of [the] intelligence, nor was it ever shared with me.

That's what Minister Blair actually said, despite the fact that Mr. Cooper would like to suggest that there is something else going on there.

Minister Blair, when you say, “I was authorized for it to be shown to me”, but it's not something that you actually looked at, put this into context for us. How many documents are you authorized to see versus how many you actually see?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It's impossible for me to give you an answer to that, unfortunately, Mr. Gerretsen, but in these circumstances, I only became aware.... Actually, Mr. Johnston showed me a document when I went and spoke to him that had my name on the address list. It was the first time I was ever aware of the existence of the document—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'm sorry, but is it safe to say that you're authorized to see a lot of stuff that you don't end up seeing? Is that not a safe assessment?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Well, it's stuff, but let me be really clear, because I'm sure my name gets put on a lot of things. But this is a top secret document. This is a top secret document, and it's not just a mail list. It's who is authorized to see something, but there's a difference between the director determining that the minister is authorized to see this and then taking the steps that would have been necessary to actually make that possible.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'm not going to lie to you. At the last meeting we had, the characterization from the Conservatives about you was that you lost the password or you forgot a password to an email address—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's silly.

Mr. Mark Gerretsen —and that's why you didn't see it.

That's silly? Is that what you're saying?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's just silly.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I want to go back to something else that you talked about previously. I don't know if it was in your opening statements or was something in response to a question, but you said that you sent a letter to all MPs in 2021 about possible threats.

Can you expand on that quickly, on what the letter was about?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes. First of all, it was in response to an issue that was tabled before Parliament and, in response, I responded with a 12-page document. In that document.... I also was concerned because I was talking about foreign interference and, particularly, I wanted to be very explicit to warn my fellow parliamentarians about the threat that the People's Republic of China actually represented. In that document I actually referenced the PRC seven different times, because I thought it was really important that all parliamentarians have that understanding.

I was concerned, obviously, about foreign interference, and I think we all now have become concerned with it, but at that time, I—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You brought it to people's attention. You were trying to signal it.

Let me ask you, Minister Blair, how many MPs replied to that, or how much correspondence did you receive back as a result of that?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, I actually mailed a copy to everyone, because I didn't—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You mailed a copy to every MP.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Every single one—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

How many MPs replied to you?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

None.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

None: You sent out a letter as minister warning MPs—to all 338 MPs—and not a single one replied to you?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's correct.