Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2023

[Simon Tunstall]

Can you be more specific?

I'm sorry. That's through the chair. I apologize. I'm not speaking in correct parliamentary terms. That was through the chair to the member.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Very simply, this video didn't come out of nowhere. It came out as a result of a coordination between the organizers involved in putting on the Liberal leadership convention.

You were not directly involved, but you delegated responsibilities to individuals. What I'm asking you to do is that, if there were communications, emails, on the part of staff or executives of the Ontario Liberal Party, will you undertake to provide those records to this committee?

[Simon Tunstall]

I apologize. I don't have legal counsel here with me because I'm ill and contagious, but I'd like to speak with legal counsel before answering that question.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Okay. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent. That does bring us to time.

Thank you for giving me those six seconds back.

Mrs. Romanado is next for six minutes.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Through you, I'd like to thank the witness for being here today. I'm sorry that he's ill and contagious, and I hope he feels better soon.

I have a very brief question, and then I'll pass my time to Mr. Gerretsen.

We've learned now, after interviewing witnesses, that what happened was that the spouse of Mr. Fraser reached out to the chief of staff of Mr. Fergus to request a personal video about his friendship with Mr. Fraser. That was provided by Mr. Fergus for a lifelong friend.

Unfortunately, he did the video in his robes in his office. However, it's very clear to me that it was not in his capacity as Speaker of the House. I can imagine the reaction by Mr. Fergus and his chief of staff and staff when it became public that this was shown at a leadership announcement for the Ontario Liberal Party.

Mr. Tunstall, did you get any feedback from the Speaker's office in terms of their surprise or shock that this was actually shown at the leadership event?

[Simon Tunstall]

As far as I'm aware, there have been no direct conversations between anybody in the Ontario Liberal Party and Mr. Fergus—the Speaker and/or staff. The Ontario Liberal Party spoke with the organizers, who are the friends and family of John Fraser who put together the event. They're the ones who communicated with the Speaker or the Speaker's office.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you for that.

With that, Madam Chair, I'd like to share the rest of my time with Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Tunstall, for appearing before committee.

So that the committee is absolutely clear, it was decided that the Ontario Liberal Party would like to do an acknowledgement for Mr. Fraser. They reached out to family to get some testimonials. That was the extent of the party's involvement in requesting testimonials. They stopped at asking the family. Is that correct?

[Simon Tunstall]

That's correct.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

The family obtained them through their own requests, based on friendships and personal relationships. Once they obtained them, they sent them to the party. Is that correct?

[Simon Tunstall]

That's correct.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

The video starts off....

I mean, I've been asked to make multiple videos in my time. I guess I'm just looking for your opinion on this.

I'm assuming that you've seen the video. Have you seen the video?

[Simon Tunstall]

No.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Oh, you haven't even seen it. Then I won't even ask you that question.

Madam Chair, I'm happy to yield the rest of my time to Mr. Duguid.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Gerretsen, for passing the baton.

Madam Chair, once upon a time, I was a party officer like Mr. Fergus. The one thing I know about the Liberal Party is that, like the Conservative Party, it is a volunteer organization. There are a few paid staff, but for the most part, we are all volunteers. As I understand the sequence of events, it was volunteers who put together this video. It was a volunteer who obviously mislabelled Mr. Fergus's status on the video. Madame DeBellefeuille has repeatedly mentioned that this was coming from the Speaker himself, which is not the case. He starts off his video with “hey, buddy” and clearly indicates that he's a friend of Mr. Fraser.

I wonder if Mr. Tunstall could comment on the nature of the Liberal Party. It's a volunteer organization. Volunteers make mistakes, and clearly the Speaker had no knowledge of how his participation would be labelled in that particular video.

Then I'll pass my time to Mr. Lauzon.

[Simon Tunstall]

I've not seen the video, so I'm not 100% sure what the label is on the video. However, the label could have been applied by the volunteers who were putting it together, or it could have been applied by the non-political audiovisual company that was preparing the event and that wouldn't have even been aware of the politics of it.

The video would have been passed by the Speaker's team to John Fraser's friends and family who were putting together and collecting things. Then it would have been passed on to the Ontario Liberal Party, and then prepared for technical presentation. It could have been, and likely was, edited by the AV company that was employed to help us out with the event, or it could have been applied by the many volunteers who were preparing the event.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent.

I'm going to actually thank you for the seven seconds you have provided us back.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Are there seven seconds? I will take them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

You can bank them.

Ms. DeBellefeuille, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Tunstall, I understand that your role at the event was to organize a great evening. When you are an event organizer, you want everything to go well and you want party workers to be content and happy. At this kind of meeting, you always arrange for videos to be played. So you scheduled certain videos to be played throughout the evening's activities.

What I find it hard to understand is that you seem to have said that you did not do any review of all the content that was aired at the event. Have I understood your remarks correctly?

[Simon Tunstall]

That is correct. We conducted voting in 139 in-person voting locations the previous weekend. That was my primary focus, as well as collecting all the voters lists and ballots from those, dealing with the mail-in votes and then preparing for ballot counting.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Tunstall. I just wanted to get an answer to my question.

Essentially, my Liberal colleagues were trying to lay the blame for this mistake on the volunteers who put a banner in the video identifying Mr. Fergus as the Speaker of the House of Commons. It would actually have been difficult not to do that, since he was in his Speaker's garb. They were intelligent enough to understand that this was not Greg who made a video in a T‑shirt and jeans in his living room; it was the Speaker, who was wearing his robes very solemnly in his office on Parliament Hill. He may well have started the video by saying "hey buddy;" nobody can say "hey buddy" while wearing the Speaker's robes.

In my career, I spent a long time managing volunteers, and never, but never, will I say that volunteers made a mistake, because they do their best. The main error lay with the person who agreed to make the video and send it off. The problem we are discussing cannot be mitigated today by saying that some volunteers sent off a video and others inserted a banner into it saying "Speaker of the House of Commons." That is not the issue today.

The issue is that the Speaker, Greg Fergus, agreed to make a video to be sent to a friend he is very fond of—we have understood that—for it to be played at your event. The volunteers put the videos together and inserted a banner, but the primary responsibility lies with the person who agreed to make the video.

You do know that all of the parties in the House of Commons have acknowledged that this video undermines the confidence of the House. It is not just me, Claude DeBellefeuille, the Bloc Québécois whip, saying it. All of the parties admitted that it was a serious mistake. So I am sorry, but I am unable to lay the blame on the volunteers and party workers who did their best to make your event a success. You will let them know that we are not blaming them; on the contrary.

Now, I would like to know your opinion, since you have organized a lot of events. Do you think it is appropriate for the Speaker of a great Parliament like Canada's to make a video to be played at a partisan event?

[Simon Tunstall]

First, I apologize if I gave any indication that I was blaming volunteers. I absolutely would not do that. Secondly, I don't think it is within my role or my expertise to judge what is appropriate and not appropriate for a Speaker. I think that is actually perhaps a matter for this committee's expertise and not my expertise.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you for your testimony. I did not have great expectations for it, but I thank you for your candour.