Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 11th, 2023

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

—results being announced. It was always going to be a very public event.

I'm going to ask you a question about your personal response to this. You've very kindly come to committee.

Do you understand how many members of Parliament feel that this is a very serious issue? Parliament voted unanimously to refer this matter to procedure and House affairs as a serious error. Do you understand why the reaction is that strong?

[John Fraser]

I know that Parliament has expressed its concern. That's why I'm hear today. I think it's important. It's important that I am here today. That's why I came here today, so I can provide what I know and what I believe to be the case.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We will now enter into our second round, starting with Mr. Duncan, followed by Mr. Gerretsen.

Mr. Duncan, you have five minutes.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Fraser, for being here today.

I want to follow up, because Mr. Fergus said several times here at committee, and in the past few days, that you're a departing colleague. You've confirmed, again, that you are planning to seek, God willing, re-election in the next provincial election.

Could you also confirm that you're going to be remaining a Liberal MPP? With the leadership race done, you're still the parliamentary leader because the new leader does not have a seat. Is that correct?

[John Fraser]

Yes. I am still a Liberal MPP, although they look at us as independents there. That's a story for another day, because we don't have time for that in committee right now.

Currently, I am, as I say, shepherding the flock in the legislature.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

You're the legislative leader.

[John Fraser]

In the new year, we're going to take a look at what we're going to do.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Have you had any communications with Mr. Fergus or his staff about your anticipated testimony before this committee today?

[John Fraser]

I have not talked to Mr. Fergus.

I did talk to Mr. Desfossés three times. The first was to inform him of what happened, and how I became aware the night of. Mid-week, he was just checking in. He called to check to see how I was doing. I told him to express to Greg how badly I felt, that I had spoken to the media and that I was available. Finally, I confirmed that I received my notice to come to committee later in the week.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Who else have you spoken to about your testimony here today? Specifically, have you spoken to anyone in the Ontario Liberal Party?

You were surprised by this video tribute over the weekend. Knowing you were coming here today, still as parliamentary leader, as a member of the Ontario Liberal Party and a key figure in this, who did you speak to in your party to ask questions about what exactly happened here?

[John Fraser]

The three people I spoke to were Steve Blais and Kathryn McGarry, who were invited to this committee. They weren't co-chairs. They were actually co-emcees.

Subsequent to that, I spoke to Simon Tunstall very briefly, because he was the CRO of the event, and the person best to come before the committee. I think he's coming here today, appearing by video.

I also spoke to Milton Chan. It wasn't about—

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Milton Chan is legal counsel.

[John Fraser]

He's legal counsel. He just simply informed me that the committee had accepted Mr. Tunstall, and that he would be appearing here at committee.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

The reason I ask is that we talk about the video originally being in an intimate and private format. Nobody today has been able to describe that intimate and private event. It never seemed to exist.

I could, perhaps, ask this, through you to the Ontario Liberal Party. It ended up going from the Speaker's office to technicians at the Ontario Liberal Party to display on the screen. It was obviously announced in some way that it was there. Would you be willing, and would the Ontario Liberal Party...?

We talk about the production of documents and information and understanding the flow. The video file ended up going from the Speaker's office to the party in some way. Would you be willing to provide—

[John Fraser]

It was through my family.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Through your—

[John Fraser]

Our family gathered everything, including all of the pictures and the video from Dalton McGuinty, and sent it back.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Would you be willing for the Ontario Liberal Party to provide all emails and any records of communication—including text messages or instant messaging applications under the party's control or in and around it—involved with this issue concerning the video tribute, both in the lead-up to getting the file and afterwards as well, to understand what was communicated or how this happened. Would you be willing to do that both before the video tribute and after?

[John Fraser]

That will have to go to the legal counsel of the party. I'm no longer leader of the party. I know that Mr. Tunstall will be appearing here after. If you're going to make that request, then I'd say that would be the most appropriate place to do that.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

The individual who is appearing next is trying to not come today and not appear. I'm taking the opportunity to address this on the record as we can—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm going to stop the clock. I'm going to make sure that the matter in front of us stands.

A letter was circulated. I can confirm that the individual is appearing. As per what I saw, members don't need them to appear based on what they can provide, but the individual is appearing. Let's stick to the facts and let's try to get to the bottom of determining how the committee wants to move forward with a recommendation to the House and how that will happen, but we will be fact-based here.

Mr. Duncan—

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Could I make a point of order without taking my time?

We received a letter in which the individual did ask not to appear today. I'm going on the fact that the individual asked not to. I was taking the time to ask Mr. Fraser about this, because I hadn't received anything since then. I'm just taking the opportunity to do that, and I've done it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm going to answer your point of order, as you want to refer to it, and say that the individual asked did not receive a positive response because the notice for the meeting was out, but the individual is on standby and will be appearing.

The floor is back to you for questions to Mr. Fraser that Mr. Fraser can actually answer.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I'd say, answer the question about asking for the production of documents and taking that opportunity to make sure that request has gone to the Ontario Liberal Party for that information before the video tribute and the production of documents on the conversations afterwards as well, which I believe are important in framing the understanding of what the time flow was.

Madam Chair, I will pass on the rest of my time, in the sense that we will ask the next witness this as well, but I wanted to get that in to make sure it was put on the record—our desire to see that information and the production of those documents.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

That's time.

Would you like to answer, Mr. Fraser? You have 15 seconds.