Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[Therese Pearce Laanela]

I'll follow up on the examples that Holly was giving. There is the possibility of getting your voting kit electronically. This is what she was describing in New Zealand, for example, and Élise was describing it in France. Many countries have this, like Estonia and the Philippines. The ballot paper can be printed where you are and not sent to you. This can be done in a number of ways.

The other possibility is that once you have filled out your ballot, it can go back electronically. There's a possibility of combining these: For example, you download your ballot but you send it back by mail after signing the various forms.

There are many permutations that are being tried out there. What you end up landing on depends a lot on the trust and technology that you have in your own country. That's, I think, where the sticking point is. It isn't that it's not technologically possible; it's whether people would trust those systems. I think that's why Elections Canada has been cautious.

I would advise that this particular population is a good one to test it on. When you start looking at these options, it is often with your out-of-country voters that you start to test and see what works.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I have less than a minute.

It may have been Dr. Garnett who mentioned it, but since I'm talking to you, maybe you can address this. Sending the ballot electronically but then also mailing it physically, is that something that some countries are doing as a backup?

[Therese Pearce Laanela]

I'll let Holly answer that one, because she said that.

[Holly Ann Garnett]

Yes, there are some American states where there are options, kind of like backups, that you can use. There is a backup form so that if you don't get your ballot in time, you can fill out the backup form and send it in. There are also cases where you can, say, email your ballot, but then follow that up with the actual physical one to be mailed in. There are a couple of states—I can't name them off the top of my head—that choose that option.

As Therese mentioned, there's a huge variety of permutations in the use of email or online systems that can be tried in terms of being able to get people's ballots to them more quickly and get them back from them more quickly.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Chris Bittle]

Thank you.

Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

I am pleased to participate in this interesting discussion on our electoral system.

Ms. Fraysse, I listened to your presentation on how the French have managed expat voting. It's very different from what we do in Canada. However, it is worthwhile comparing the two, and that's what I'd like to do with you.

Currently, French expats who are outside Canada typically go to vote in their last place of residence. That raises the possibility that the vote could be targeted and that there could be a concerted movement. People's last addresses aren't checked very well. This risk may be hypothetical, but there is still a risk in certain ridings where the vote might be closer.

The French approach of having specific ridings for expats would reduce that risk.

That said, I sensed that you were somewhat critical of France's solution. You said there were challenges in terms of legitimacy and representation.

Are there any advantages to having specific ridings for citizens who live outside the national territory?

[Élise Fraysse]

Thank you for your question.

French expats can in fact vote in two ways. They can vote in their home municipality, their last place of residence or where their parents or ancestors were registered, for example. So they are buried in national ridings and vote for members of metropolitan France. They can also decide to vote abroad, in which case they are affiliated with the 11 “international ridings”.

The main benefit that was raised in 2008 at the time of the constitutional reform is certainly visibility and specificity for French citizens living abroad. I think that is definitely related to the idea that France should have some influence abroad, that it is an economic benefit to have expats, and that they are therefore given a more specific voice in Parliament.

I think that is why this change was readily adopted in 2008 by the executive branch and the legislative branch.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

My next question might seem rather subjective.

When members of the French political system speak on behalf of expats from a sector such as Oceania or Asia, are they considered relevant and listened to?

[Élise Fraysse]

I think so. There was even a French member from abroad who later became a minister, which hadn't happened for a long time.

However, given the size of the ridings, especially when you're talking about Oceania, it seems difficult. In fact, that riding extends from Russia to Australia. There's only one MP who represents that entire international riding. It can also raise questions about the advisability and legitimacy of speaking on behalf of all French citizens living abroad.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Yes, that's bigger than my riding.

[Élise Fraysse]

Yes, I think so.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

I think it's too big as it is.

How does it work in terms of representation?

How do those people get in touch with the people they elected?

[Élise Fraysse]

I think it's very difficult. In fact, it works largely through the parties. First and foremost, people vote for a party to be represented in France. They don't really vote for someone who is going to defend their expatriate interests in Australia or New Zealand within France, for example.

That's why the abstention rate is still quite high. I don't think all expatriates are really represented in spite of those specific MPs.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Indeed, it is an interesting solution, because expats may have more in common than those at their last known address.

For voters, I get it, but the representatives fare well also. They are elected by people they will probably never meet in their lives.

[Élise Fraysse]

Some international ridings are more important. I'm thinking of Canada and the United States. However, it still makes more sense in Europe, since the majority of expats live there. I'm thinking of Benelux in particular. I think it's easier to have a connection with the member in question and the three small countries that make up Benelux. They're smaller than France alone.

For some ridings, it does seem a bit pointless.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Based on your reading and observations, what do you think is the best option?

Is it the option currently in place here? People vote in a riding that exists in Canada.

From what I understand, France has adopted a hybrid model.

In your opinion, which option is more conducive to voting by special ballot?

[Élise Fraysse]

I don't know if I will answer your question directly. The fact that France allows people to vote in national and local elections even though they have never lived in France is quite problematic, in my opinion.

To my mind, it is problematic. I think it is really a fiction to say that people are attached to France through communes. I'm not on board with that.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

You have to understand that, in Canada, the Supreme Court said that there was no time limit.

Thank you, Ms. Fraysse.

[Élise Fraysse]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Chris Bittle]

Thank you.

I was drifting a little, but we're a bit over. I appreciate the time.

We will now go to Mr. Jackson for five minutes, please.

[Grant Jackson, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

It's nice to see you again, Dr. Garnett, and to the rest of you, it's nice to meet you virtually for the first time.

My first question is for Ms. Laanela.

In Canada, as you know, there is a constitutional separation between federal government responsibilities and provincial government responsibilities. We're talking a lot about equal representation and decision-making at the federal level. I wonder if you have any comment about the fact that there are constitutional authorities that are strictly the responsibility of provinces and whether Canadians living abroad.... How would that work? We don't necessarily have relationships with Canadian embassies abroad at the provincial level. In terms of encouraging voters abroad, if they're going to be allowed to vote in provincial elections as well, what would that look like? Who is going to facilitate those elections? If we're talking about equality of representation, is it not important that Canadians abroad should be voting in provincial elections as well? What would that look like?

[Therese Pearce Laanela]

That's an excellent question.

You picked on something that has to do, in a way, with identity and what being Canadian is or what being British Columbian is. A rule of thumb is that, for those abroad, it's your national identity that is the one that is key. The smaller you get in terms of jurisdiction.... If you go down to the municipal level, that would be for residents, so even if you weren't a citizen but were a resident, you should be able to vote where you live, because that's things like the swimming pool, the parks and so forth, whereas the national decisions are to do with you as a Canadian. That tends to be the rule of thumb.

Now, the thing is that Canadian provinces are so big that they are almost like some states, so they come in that grey zone. Therefore, it becomes an identity issue a little bit there, as well. You can look to the United States—and I think Holly has more examples of that, of what is allowed if you're a Californian overseas and so forth—with regard to these provinces that are almost as big as some countries.

I want to just give an example of what Élise was saying, and that is that in Cape Verde, for example, they see Cape Verde as beyond its geographical boundaries. This is a kind of a national philosophy. A Cape Verdean is a Cape Verdean, no matter what they are, so they take out-of-country voting extremely seriously, whereas other places—like India, for example—don't allow voting abroad at all.

It's really to do with identity and where people belong.

[Grant Jackson, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you for that answer. It's sort of leading me to my next question, which goes very well with it.

In the House of Commons just recently, a bill passed to remove the first-generation limit on citizenship for folks born abroad. I have no doubt that this will pass in the Senate, as well, and likely be in effect for the next election. Right now, though, despite that, the bill does nothing to address the fact that the Canada Elections Act currently requires voters living abroad to vote in the last constituency that they lived in. However, when this bill comes into effect, you will have many generations of Canadians eligible to vote here who have never lived in the country.

I wonder, Dr. Garnett, if you have some recommendation as to how to address that. Where should the votes...? Obviously, we won't have foreign constituencies, like France, established for the next election, yet you'll have multiple generations of foreign Canadians—that's not the right term, but you know what I mean—who have never lived here, so they can't register in the last constituency they lived in. Where should those votes be tallied?

[Holly Ann Garnett]

That's an excellent question, and it's something that I don't think there's an easy solution or answer to. I think what you could look to is where the family member through whom they got citizenship last voted. Otherwise, I don't have an easy or perfect solution.

I wonder if perhaps Ms. Fraysse has a solution from the French context.