Human Resources Committee on Sept. 26th, 2006

[Caroline Weber]

If you ask any program person whether a program should be bigger, we will always say yes, I'm afraid, so I will give you that boring answer--yes, I think we could use more money there. On the other hand, perhaps there are other ways of delivering the program. We are currently looking at the similarities between what we're doing and what the provinces are doing, and maybe there's a way to combine our efforts. We try to keep an open mind about how to be more efficient and effective all the time.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Is literacy included in that program?

[Caroline Weber]

No.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

It's another program?

[Caroline Weber]

Yes.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Yesterday cuts were announced that affect volunteer action groups and literacy programs. We know that where literacy and programs for people with disabilities are concerned, there are a lot of volunteers.

Do you know whether these cuts affect literacy programs for people with disabilities?

[Caroline Weber]

No. I can assure you that no programs explicitly targeted for people with disabilities were cut.

But I don't know whether the cuts affect people who deal with persons with disabilities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Lessard, that's all the time we have. That's five minutes.

We're going to Madame Savoie. You have five minutes.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you. I have just two questions.

Do you feel that the programs available to people with disabilities are well enough publicized that they're aware of them and can access them? It's my impression, from the cases we get in our offices, that they may not be. And what can you do about it?

[Caroline Weber]

I'm going to pass this off, I think, to both, perhaps, of my colleagues from PSHRMAC. I know that on the opportunities fund we're oversubscribed and have wait lists, but we're not for the others.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Maybe that answers the question about whether you can use more money, but in a less bureaucratic way.

[Cathy Drummond]

I can say we're finding that people with disabilities have difficulty accessing every program to which they have a right—at least, surveys are showing us that. We are making concerted efforts in Service Canada to try to get more information out, so that if people have applied for one program—for instance, CPP—we give them when they apply information on other programs, because they may be eligible for more than federal programs; they may be eligible for provincial as well. It's important for us to improve the information we give and to continually improve and to continue to make it as simple as we can.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

If that information could be passed on to every MP's office, for example, in a direct way, that might be helpful. We often get people coming in to the office.

[Cathy Drummond]

In fact there's a new brochure out on all the federal programs for people with disabilities, which we would be very happy to supply to every MP's office.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Earlier, I think Ms. Weber said, “We'll work with the provinces on the issue.” I appreciate that it's a shared jurisdiction, but in what way can the federal government give leadership on this ever-increasing problem of people with disability being left to their own devices and ending up on the streets in unfortunate circumstances?

[Caroline Weber]

One thing we're trying to do a better job of is sorting out the roles and responsibilities. Right now, while the federal government largely provides some income support for people with disabilities through the pension plan and tax benefits, we also do a bit of programming that provides disability supports. But the provinces largely provide disability supports. We're talking about how we can better focus what each of us is really good at and perhaps improve the situation that way.

It's also a good idea because the systems, such as they are, aren't really easy to navigate. People with disabilities especially, but anybody has a hard time figuring out that you have to go to one place first and one place second, and if you don't do it that way, then you're not allowed to go to the other place. Trying to sort that out also involves all of us working together to agree that we're going to make it simpler and clearer to everybody.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

The graph for our offices would be a good start in going from A to B to C. That is a frequent problem.

This is an example, but it goes beyond that example, and I can't help but feel that the definition of “disability” is just too narrow. We have a person who has worked, wants to go back to university, has had recurring cancer, can't meet the definition of disability, and certainly wants to study but cannot. So I'm just wondering.

[Caroline Weber]

Thank you for that question.

It's what we call--and I'm afraid it's the jargon that Ms. Brown doesn't like--episodic disabilities. We do have a program gap there, completely. Employers don't have any way of keeping those people in the labour market. Those are the people we lose to social assistance who I think could be working. Again, maybe it's the idea of long-term disability insurance for these people that helps them maintain whatever labour market attachment they can.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you. That's all your time, Madame Savoie.

We're going to the last questioner of second round. Mr. Storseth, you have five minutes.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for coming forward today and giving us such a good presentation.

I want to start out by premising my comments by saying probably the hardest working employee I have, and have had for years, has been my constituency assistant who is disabled. He works out of a wheelchair. The amount of bureaucracy that he has to go through in order to access different programs or see if this is okay is extremely frustrating to him. We often talk about the frustration that seniors have to go through when accessing our bureaucracy. I feel that it's even more frustrating when it comes to people with disabilities.

When you were talking about CPP disability earlier, you talked about something called the automatic reinstatement component. Could I get you to explain that a little more?

[Caroline Weber]

I'll ask Nancy Lawand to speak to that.

[Nancy Lawand, Director, Canada Pension Plan Disability Policy, Department of Human Resources and Social Development]

This was an amendment made to the Canada Pension Plan in 2005. On February 1, it came into effect.

For several years we've allowed people to have sporadic earnings, because that's not a demonstration that they can regularly work at a substantially gainful level, but a small minority of our clients—I think it's covered in the deck—do go back to work every year. Since the automatic reinstatement came into effect, when a client reports that they're returning to work and have reached the point where they're working regularly, the benefit is ceased.

They're not cured, as it were. They still have cancer, mental illness, multiple sclerosis, or whatever condition that was preventing them from working. But if they are able to overcome that, go back to work, and have their benefits cease, if the disability reoccurs within a two year period, they basically can ask to have their benefits reinstated. It's a very simple process. Their doctor signs a one-page form, and the client basically just asks to be reinstated. That's the way it's working.

When the client's benefits are ceased, they're given an information package so they know that if anything happens to them in that period, to get in touch with us right away.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you.

I think that's something once again where we talk about people not truly understanding. When Kenny was looking at coming to work for me, he saw it as a very big risk. If he can't sustain that job and he loses his benefits, he has to go through it all again. So I'm very happy to hear about that, but I think we need to do a better job in getting this out to people.

I'm going to go quickly to my other question. Many disabled Canadians have trouble gaining mobility in order to go to work. That's one of the key aspects of why they don't take work, because they can't get to and from work and do everything on their own.

First, do we have any reports that have been released on this aspect of accessibility; and secondly, do we have some programs in place that are easily accessible and would help out?

I know in his situation he had the ability to get a van outfitted so that he was able to go to and from work, but do we have any reports or information on these programs? I'd be interested to see that. That's the first part; and secondly, what programs do we have to make accessibility an issue?

[Caroline Weber]

As to numbers on transportation issues, we have some data that can speak to the number of Canadians who cite inaccessibility of transportation as a barrier and a problem they confront.

In general, these programs are within either provincial or municipal jurisdictions, and so we haven't done a lot of work there. It's an interesting area. There are offices for disability issues pretty much across the country, so we could be working with them to look at the issue from more of a national perspective.

Within the federal jurisdiction, certainly there are issues around the accessibility of rail and airlines, etc. We've had different standards at different times with different effectiveness.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Storseth.

We're going to move to our last round, with Mr. D'Amours for five minutes.