Human Resources Committee on Oct. 25th, 2006

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Madame Bonsant is next, for five minutes.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Good morning. I'm going to speak to Ms. Moreau.

In my riding, there are persons with mental disabilities who have entered the job market. I went to visit them, and things aren't easy for them. In the Eastern Townships, there is a problem with housing adapted to certain disabilities. Does your program help local organizations gain access to financial assistance for housing and transportation? As you said, a number of persons with disabilities live in rural areas. My riding comprises 44 municipalities, and the largest has 6,700 inhabitants. A lot of people live outside of it and have no means of transportation.

Do you have money to help these people make their housing accessible, which would avoid having to transport them morning and evening?

[Nancy Moreau]

We focus our efforts more particularly on employment. However, our clientele is often faced with these types of problems, which cannot be dissociated from employment. If a person is unable to find housing before starting to work, we try to find relief housing enabling him or her to access a job or avoid losing an employment opportunity. The program does not enable us to intervene over the long term or in housing.

In cooperation with the employment advisors of the specialized labour services, we try to find temporary solutions, until the person can find a more permanent solution. We offer temporary assistance to cover housing costs so that the person has the time to find a new foster family or move. We can also pay transportation expenses. That's a temporary solution that leaves people the time to find a car pool arrangement or appropriate means of transportation, to obtain a driver's licence or move.

Unfortunately, we look for temporary solutions to prevent people from losing job opportunities. In cooperation with their caseworkers, the people often spend weeks, even months, looking for a job. When the opportunity arises, we make it so that they at least don't lose that opportunity. We try to find temporary solutions.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

This is a question that some taxpayers with disabilities have asked me. In a small municipality that is a central town, people live outside the area. A person with mental disabilities doesn't have a driver's licence. We therefore have to find those people places that are close to their work. Everything related to housing has been cut by the federal government since the 1990s. Whether it's one government or another, the situation is the same everywhere.

I was wondering whether you had any money to assist these people in finding new housing, not necessarily in mansions, but in places nearer their work. You're telling me you don't do that.

[Nancy Moreau]

No, we deal specifically with employment-related problems. However, as I was saying, that's an comprehensive area. The problems that persons with disabilities have can't be viewed separately; they're all interrelated. That's why we work with the partners in the health systems and rehabilitation centres to try to find comprehensive solutions.

We talk to each other; we don't work alone. That's our strength, because we have few resources, very little money, and we focus specifically on employment. Since everyone's talking to each other, we manage to find solutions that don't solve all the problems, as you said, but that at least make it possible to prevent people from losing certain job opportunities.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

In view of the labour shortage, it has to be understood that it's not because you have a disability that you can't work. I have a granddaughter who's at cegep and is taking hyperbaric oxygen therapy treatment. She's made progress. Everything's in place, but she's unable to speak.

I'm going back to Mr. Giroux of the Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec. I don't know whether you heard about the BLEU, Bureaux de liaison entreprises-universités, that they're trying to set up here, in Sherbrooke, with the know-how and knowledge we have in Sherbrooke, together with Bishop's University, the two cegeps and the University of Sherbrooke.

Have the University of Sherbrooke or your association agreed with certain businesses to...? If the federal government doesn't transfer the money related to the fiscal imbalance we're always hearing about, couldn't you enter into agreements with certain research and development businesses to develop textiles, plastics, etc.? Couldn't you have created a kind of partnership with these companies and students?

[Philippe-Olivier Giroux]

To obtain additional money, I assume?

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

To obtain money and knowledge. There are coops in engineering, but that opportunity shouldn't be afforded just in engineering. In my opinion, all college and university institutions should offer training divided equally between work and courses.

I was wondering whether coop programs wouldn't be an option for you. During that time, the student is paid and acquires experience. It's a mix of two things: work and courses. Have you tried that — doing both — with certain businesses?

[Philippe-Olivier Giroux]

We represent students who conduct research, students at the master's and doctoral level.

I'd like us to have the leeway to take a position on whether universities can approach businesses for this kind of partnership. I'll give you an example.

If the University of Sherbrooke wants to agree with four businesses to give students the opportunity to conduct research projects with them, or if those businesses want to fund research projects at the university, we'd be in favour of that.

However, that all has to be strictly overseen. First, students must receive fair compensation. They mustn't be used as cheap labour, to conduct research instead of the business.

Second, the intellectual property rights inherent in the research must be clearly determined. If the students discover something in the course of their research, they must be able to be recognized and, subsequently, receive royalties resulting from that discovery. We think that must be established.

Lastly, the cooperation of one business with a university must not influence the university syllabus. For example, we wouldn't want universities to start developing programs specifically for businesses, because, when the economic sector of those businesses collapses, the universities will be stuck with programs that are no longer necessarily needed.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

That's not all. A number of university students have spoken to me about the federal-provincial transfer for tuition fees. That transfer is a good idea, as you said earlier. However, we shouldn't be funding health without funding plastics research, or be funding certain fields at the expense of others. These students have told me they agreed with the federal transfer, but that Quebec should manage its own investment areas; otherwise certain departments would be targeted at the expense of others. These students clearly told me that matters absolutely should not come to that.

I know that health is in fashion these days, but there are other things than health: there's engineering, social development, agriculture. I'd like to know your views on the subject: targeting research at the expense of other areas.

[Philippe-Olivier Giroux]

In research, to a certain extent, you have to rely on specific strengths and develop strategic areas. In economic terms, that's what has the best chance of paying dividends.

However, it's essential to fund a very broad range of research, including basic research in the social sciences and humanities, which the private sector tends to underfund, or not fund at all. Why? Because basic research often produces results after 20 or 30 years.

Albert Einstein's theory of relativity is an example I love. In the 1950s, it was pure theory. It was practically an intellectual toy. However, now it enables us to achieve accuracy with a GPS to within 15 meters instead of 15 kilometers. That's why it's very important to continue investing in these areas. It's mainly the federal government's responsibility to invest in the humanities and in basic research, since the private sector isn't doing it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Madame Bonsant.

We're almost out of time today. We're going to 10 o'clock, but I'm going to give one last round to Madame Savoie. You have five minutes.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

You've begun to address a subject that is a major concern of mine. For the past 12 years or so, we've tended to privatize basic research. The emphasis has been placed on research that pays, not basic research that we need, as you just mentioned.

As regards the dedicated transfer, I wanted to ensure that, in your mind, it was only for postsecondary education, and that increased research funding was separate.

[Philippe-Olivier Giroux]

That's correct. What's called core funding for universities in fact represents their operating budget. Research is funded by other means. In the first rank are the following three agencies: the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada and the Canadian Institutes of Health Research.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

To get back to the humanities, I know that research in that field is funded less than in the sciences and engineering. The amounts allocated to research in the humanities are not representative of the number of students who study in that field.

Are there any statistics or facts that you could give us on the subject?

[Philippe-Olivier Giroux]

I can't give you any off hand. However, I can confirm that humanities research has long been funded to a lesser degree than research in health or the natural sciences and engineering.

For example, in the spring budget, the only one of the three funds that underwent budget cuts was that of the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council. And yet it's really very important to fund that type of research adequately. We must assess the potential social consequences of every technological innovation introduced into society. You need only think of the entire ethical aspect that goes with pharmaceutical research and health research. It's very important that this type of research evolve along with technological and health research. If you're interested in this matter, I can probably find statistics on the subject.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here today. I want to thank my colleagues, as well as the witnesses, for being patient with my French.

These are pretty important discussions we're having. We believe employability is a huge issue, and as you've all pointed out in your own way, more needs to be done in this country.

We want to thank you all once again for being here and for taking time out of your busy schedules.

The meeting is adjourned.