Evidence of meeting #23 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
9:15 a.m.
Agent de développement de solutions et de projets, Fondation de la langue française pour l'innovation sociale et scientifique
You'll also find a sample of studies on the number of books and so on.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
9:15 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I want to thank you for accepting our invitation.
Every time people come and testify about their experience, they make a considerable contribution to the work from which we submit recommendations to the House of Commons. They also make a considerable contribution to increasing the awareness of members of the government. I wanted to thank you for that.
First, I'm going to speak to Mr. Clermont and Ms. Archambault.
I'm sure both of you had to deliver all this in a fairly brief period of time. One of the things that struck me was the description of the conditions in which you're placed as students. The situation is such that this morning you're recommending to us, among other things, that a commission of inquiry be formed. Usually when there's talk of a commission of inquiry, we're talking about a fairly serious case.
As regards the impact of student employment and working conditions, I'm afraid we're letting something important pass. I'm also afraid that we're depriving government services of important resources.
I'd like you to expand a little on the subject. Some things are escaping me.
9:15 a.m.
As an Individual
It must be understood that the FSWEP applies across Canada. We're virtually limited to the Chambly Canal. This situation is occurring virtually everywhere in Canada.
When I worked on the sites of other historic canals, I witnessed the same incidents. Wherever the FSWEP is used, the same inequality can be observed.
9:20 a.m.
As an Individual
Let's consider the scope of the irregular implementation of the FSWEP program. For example, there are approximately 9,000 learning assignments within the Canadian government across the country. At Parks Canada, we're talking about 1,000 assignments. In the absence of any program monitoring or audit, managers may be violating the policy in the cases of 1,000 student assignments without the students having any kind of recourse.
A document produced jointly by the Quebec legislation administration unit within the Parks Canada agency and the union contains a report describing the problem. According to that report, at a number of locations — if not all locations — there are complaints about the situation of students who are performing the same duties as other employees in classified positions, but at a fraction of the salary.
9:20 a.m.
As an Individual
It should also be understood that, before the FSWEP started, regular employees occupied the positions. The number of classified positions was cut and the difference was made up with students.
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Let's sum this up. You're given responsibilities that you originally weren't supposed to have. Your salary's kept at its initial level. Sometimes — you cited an example earlier — you have responsibilities that are associated with a wage of nearly $10 more an hour, whereas you're not being paid that wage. Am I understanding this correctly?
9:20 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, the theory is different from the practice. In theory, there is a list of duties that students have to perform. However, that's impossible to put into practice in the field. It's impossible because the unit wouldn't be able to operate if students didn't take on other responsibilities, those of the position of an assistant lock operator.
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Okay.
You said a lot about regulations and standards. You say they're not being complied with. You cited some examples on that point.
What do you expect from us? Usually, when regulations and standards aren't being complied with, you talk to your superiors. Has that been done?
9:20 a.m.
As an Individual
I've already approached my supervisors, at the Quebec legislation administration unit, and the Director General of Parks Canada, who answered me by letter. That letter, which was ultimately very unsatisfactory, reminded me that there was a difference between a classified position and a student assignment, even though I was complaining about the fact that students often found themselves in classified positions. He also referred me to a document concerning conditions of employment at Parks Canada. However, I hadn't received that document because, after I filed an information request with the director of the western Quebec unit, she instead sent me the Treasury Board document, which, of course, isn't the same document. There are of course differences between the two.
9:20 a.m.
As an Individual
These officers rely on the existing documents, but, as I said, the theory differs a great deal from practice.
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
I'll come back to you later.
Now I want to speak to the representative of the support association for persons with disabilities, SPHERE-Québec. Ms. Moreau, earlier you gave me an example of labour market integration of persons with disabilities in the Montérégie region, in the horticulture industry.
Are you in contact with an existing program in the mountain area, Saint-Hilaire, Beloeil, McMasterville, Otterburn Park and so on? There's a labour market integration program for persons with disabilities there in a number of sectors. Are you aware of that?
9:20 a.m.
Director general, SPHERE-Québec (Soutien à la personne handicapée en route vers l'emploi au Québec)
We serve the Montérégie region and we work in cooperation with the specialized employment services of those regions. There is a Montérégie specialized employment service office in Beloeil, I believe. It serves persons with disabilities and helps them enter the labour market. So we can receive requests from that area of Montérégie very regularly.
9:25 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Does that area have the program you referred to earlier, the innovative special project? Is that the same program?
9:25 a.m.
Project Agent, SPHERE-Québec (Soutien à la personne handicapée en route vers l'emploi au Québec)
The example we cited is one of a number of projects that may be supported by the individual measures of the Opportunities Fund for Persons with Disabilities. The people of that region have access to all the individual measures of the Opportunities Fund for Persons with Disabilities, which are managed by SPHERE-Québec. I'm the officer responsible for that region.
9:25 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
That was quite remarkable, because the employers were very proud of the work of those employees. Last year, I went there, and there were perhaps some 20 examples of situations in which employees with disabilities and employers came and testified. Each described their experience and what they had learned from it. It was quite amazing.
9:25 a.m.
Project Agent, SPHERE-Québec (Soutien à la personne handicapée en route vers l'emploi au Québec)
You're no doubt referring to the press conference that was held in Montérégie to publicize the program for the public, the media, parents and persons with disabilities who weren't yet in contact.
As Nancy said earlier, a lot of persons with disabilities are currently at home and feel ready to enter the labour market, but don't really know where to turn. A program like the Opportunities Fund for Persons with Disabilities, which works for persons with disabilities, would really be an extraordinary thing for those people.
The horticulture project is a concrete example that shows it is currently possible in Quebec to tailor training for people who are looking for jobs. As you said so well, we respond to needs of employers who are currently facing a labour shortage. It's a winning formula.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you, Mr. Lessard.
We're going to move along to Madame Savoie for seven minutes.
October 25th, 2006 / 9:25 a.m.
NDP
Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question concerns the dedicated transfer. As my party's critic for postsecondary education and training, I entirely agree. This is what we've been advocating for a number of years.
You mentioned an amount of $4.9 billion. Are you referring to the budget cuts made in the 1990s? Is that an amount we should have today, if there hadn't been all those cuts, all those cutbacks over a number of years? Is that it? If not, does it represent another needs analysis?
9:25 a.m.
President, Conseil national des cycles supérieurs, Quebec Federation of University Students
As regards the $4.9 billion, this amount was determined as follows. $2.2 billion was cut in the mid-1990s from what at the time was called the Canada Health and Social Transfer. So that was $2.2 billion, to which we added the indexing of system costs and an increase attributable to the fact that there are now more students in the university system. If you take these factors into account, the total is $4.9 billion.
There's a consensus on that figure in Quebec, since, no more recently than last December, the Quebec minister of education, the Fédération québécoise des professeures et professeurs d'université, the university presidents table, the cegep administrators table, university and college students, as well as the Chamber of Commerce and the Conseil du patronat joined forces to say that the demand was $4.9 billion for Quebec. So that would represent a contribution of approximately $1.2 billion, taking into account the fact that Quebec traditionally receives 25% of transfers.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC
Okay. I think there's unanimous agreement on that figure, even elsewhere in Canada.
I've previously had discussions with representatives of the Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec, the FEUQ. Do you think there could be, or there should be, conditions for this dedicated transfer? Otherwise, would that be encroaching on the provinces' jurisdiction? By way of conditions, I'm thinking, for example, of the quality and accessibility of education, to ensure a certain degree of accountability with regard to those sums of money.
9:30 a.m.
President, Conseil national des cycles supérieurs, Quebec Federation of University Students
In your view, this is a transfer that absolutely must not entail any conditions. The provinces make various choices regarding accessibility. Quebec, for example, has decided to maintain quite low tuition fees. The choices of each of the provinces must be respected. The use of this transfer for postsecondary education must entirely remain the jurisdiction of the provinces.
9:30 a.m.
NDP
Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC
All right, thank you.
Mr. Beausoleil, when we met briefly a few months ago, I believe we spoke about teaching materials in French. At National Defence, for example, I myself have observed that many young Quebeckers registering for mandatory courses had to use material drafted in English only and that, as a result, in many cases, they failed the exam.
When you referred to course material, you meant the teaching material necessary for the courses in the education system, didn't you?
