Human Resources Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

[Francisco Rico-Martinez]

The problems we have in that area are very limited. It has not been an issue for us to find a solution in the workplace. I think religion is not an issue that is creating fewer problems in terms of jobs, or more problems. It is basically solved among their own communities.

The problem is that we don't consult with the communities we are working in. We try to impose solutions, and that creates a problem. But if we talk to them, we solve the problems.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Okay.

[Veena Verma]

This is Cecilia Diocson. She's with the National Alliance of Philippine Women in Canada.

[Cecilia Diocson, Executive Director, National Alliance of Philippine Women in Canada, Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives (KAIROS)]

Good morning.

Thank you very much for giving me this brief opportunity to say something about the live-in caregiver program.

You asked what is different in other provinces from Quebec. In Quebec, live-in caregivers are not included in the workers' compensation program. I think that is really very important. Aside from the limited rights they have, these workers need to be compensated when they're injured at work. This has been implemented in other provinces. In British Columbia, they have been included since 1985. In Quebec, it's still a struggle for this group of workers.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you. That's all the time we have.

Mr. Albrecht, for five minutes.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you.

I'm going to try to do a one-minute question back to Ms. Verma.

Can we assume that 100% of the temporary workers who come here would be interested in being permanent residents of Canada? Or do a number of them come because there are employment opportunities here and really wish to return to their country? Is that an issue at all?

[Veena Verma]

Speaking for the Mexican workers, I know for a fact that the Mexican consulate only recruits married workers to come to Canada, because it's a guarantee that they will go back.

That said, do they want to stay in Canada? If they can bring their family into Canada, I think you would probably increase the pool of workers who may want to come in. Both live-in caregivers and agricultural workers are denied any type of family reunification. They can't come into Canada, only the worker.

Some Mexican workers I have spoken to have come here and they don't like it. So they work here for their contract, they go back, and they don't come back next year.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Okay. But you think that may change if they were allowed to bring their whole family, which makes total sense to me.

[Veena Verma]

Absolutely.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you.

I have a question back to the CARP group; it doesn't matter who answers it. I noticed that you had one paragraph here talking about developing a distinct EI fund for caregivers. That makes a lot of sense to me. I think that not only do people over 55 contribute meaningfully to our economy and to the tax income of our country....

I'd like to know, have you done a study as to how this might impact the health care system positively, in terms of alleviating pressure, if a caregiver is given an incentive to care for a relative or a neighbour in their home? Have studies been done on this?

[Judy Cutler]

We've done a few studies and there have been others. I don't think caregivers need incentives. I was a caregiver twice: once for my mother—

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I wasn't thinking so much of the incentive as to what the actual cost burden is for not allowing them to do it, in terms of our health care system.

[Judy Cutler]

I don't have dollar figures, but I can tell you that going back to my own experience, if I hadn't been there 24/7 for my mother, she would have been in an institution. And if I hadn't been there for my brother, he probably would have been more in the hospital than at home.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

The costs would be ten times higher.

[Judy Cutler]

They would be ten times higher, plus the fact that caregivers are the core of the home care system. So if we're going to have an effective home care system, as we were talking about other areas, we have to have respect for the caregivers.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Philosophically and anecdotally, I certainly understand that there would be strong support for this. I'm just wondering, have any studies been done? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but I think it would be interesting to have a study done to answer this question.

[Judy Cutler]

May I add that there is a program for palliative end-of-life care, and my understanding is that the government is surprised it's not taken advantage of more often.

First, many people don't know about it, but more to the point, you have to have worked within that year. So if someone's been a caregiver for two years, when they get to the end of life, they don't qualify.

[William Gleberzon]

On the other side too, as a corollary to what Judy was saying, there is a tax credit that a caregiver can receive. But again, you have to work to get a benefit of the tax credit. So what we're talking about here is recognizing the realities of a system that, as Judy said, is the backbone of our health care system. Because unless you can have someone at home to take care of the person who's discharged quickly from an institution or hospital, that whole notion isn't going to work.

Currently our national home care program, such as it is, is based on the assumption of getting people out of hospitals as quickly as possible and having them recover at home. But there's very little benefit or support for the person who is there to make sure that this is going to happen.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you.

I don't know if Peter wanted to add to that.

[Peter Sawchuk]

There are studies that have estimated in dollar figures the effect on the economy of home work generally, a great portion of which is care work for relatives experiencing health problems. I could send you a dozen references, in which you could find dozens more, that put exact dollar figures on it.

Conservative estimates have put it anywhere between ten and—there are some wild estimates—as much as half of the GDP, you could almost put. Now, that's all of home work, half of which I would argue is care work. If you work with the numbers, you can find that this is an enormous amount of value in which we don't train, we don't support, and we obviously don't pay.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I think it's an area we need to do further work in. We could, for instance, collate the myriad studies out there and bring them into some kind of summary so that I as an MP or our officials could say here's the evidence, now let's do something about it.

[William Gleberzon]

We've seen some studies--by the University of Alberta, for instance--that have suggested $5 billion in savings.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I have a couple of questions before we close off.

To Mr. Sawchuk, in terms of foreign credentials, yesterday when we were in Quebec we heard that, as you alluded to earlier--or maybe it was you, Karen--we do have the provinces responsible for foreign credential recognition. One concern this individual had was that as we look at trying to form a national foreign credentials organization, it's really the provinces that are deciding.

Talk to me about duplication. Do you have some concerns there? I realize that we're trying to do something that's going to move forward and address those issues, but there's also the possibility of duplication. I wonder what your thoughts are on what we're proposing, and then possibly how that affects things provincially and nationally.