Human Resources Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

[Peter Sawchuk]

I'm not sure what you're proposing, but definitely, as Karen said, literally hundreds of studies have accumulated over 20 years on the incoherence across jurisdictions and on the lack of coherence between immigration and labour market policies. Karen said that we don't have an economic policy here. In some ways, the closest we get is human resources development. That's the closest we get to an economic policy here, and that's a real problem.

At one point I mentioned the need for a federal-provincial-territorial group. That's absolutely crucial. The answers are out there. A committee of that type could bring in a core group of people. You would have not just the support--my end of it is more the research support side--but an equally powerful group of people who could give you very specific policy stuff.

We just had a conference on this, early in October, which the Toronto Training Board and the Centre for the Study of Education and Work organized. For me, one of the themes that came out there was that there's an enormous amount of research and answers out there. They just have to be brought together.

Then there's the very difficult and sticky question of getting control of the occupational regulation bodies. Equally sticky, as I said, is getting immigration to talk to ministries of labour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Fair enough. I guess one of the recommendations to come out of the report is this provincial-territorial working group that, as you said, is a no-brainer to get people talking about some of these things. I guess it's appreciated that we're probably going to have issues when we start dealing with associations and provinces and so on. Maybe we can knock off some low-hanging fruit that make some sense and that actually will produce results.

To Bill and Judy, I want to thank you guys for the work you do with CARP. It's great work. We heard in St. John's and Halifax about ageism. Ageism concerns me greatly. I don't think we treat seniors with the respect they deserve. I believe there's a brain trust there.

With all of these things that have been talked about, what is it going to take? Barring the fact that we have to get into crisis mode and realize that, yes, we have individuals who would like to work...and quite frankly, maybe it is only 20 hours a week. If someone is retiring, they probably don't want to work 40 hours a week.

I realize it's a bit of a convoluted question because there are so many different areas that are affected and can be influenced--through taxes, for example--but when it comes to ageism, what is it that we can do? People say “education”, but what is that? It's kind of difficult to get our head around in terms of what that may be.

So what would you suggest?

[Judy Cutler]

I think we need some political leadership. We don't see seniors or even older Canadians referred to very often. We don't have a seniors minister. We have a seniors secretariat that seems pretty ineffective right now. We don't have a seniors council, which was promised.

Governments across the country have to show some leadership in this area. In the Liberal leadership race now, we've met with some of the people, and we don't see seniors in their debate either. We need to start dealing with it.

Again, the Senate report will maybe open the way, but as Peter said, there are so many reports and studies gathering dust on shelves, we have to start taking them seriously and move from research to policy and not just accumulate information. It's government who could do it.

[William Gleberzon]

With due respect, I think there has to be a change of perspective by politicians to go beyond the three-, four-, or five-year framework, in terms of what has to be done.

We're talking about the reality that the nature of this country, and the world, in many parts, is going to be fundamentally changed. Because we're going to have a lot more people with hair like mine--maybe more hair than mine, but a lot like it--one out of every four people. We're talking about an unprecedented reality that has never been experienced before, and that means--building on what Judy has said--if the politicians are prepared to say there is this new reality, we have to deal with it in all its manifestations. And when we talk about education, in a sense it might be--and I'll use a word that none of us likes to use--a kind of propaganda campaign to make people understand in very simple sound bites, very simple messages, that this is the new reality and these are people who are more than just nice old folks who did favours for us fifty years ago. These people are us--and not only us, but someone who's now 26, forty years from now.... They're just the same person at a different phase of their life.

So it's a whole different way of looking at things, a perspective that's needed. And I think it's possible. I don't think it's just pie-in-the-sky kind of stuff that I'm saying.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I think that's an excellent point.

Go ahead, Judy.

[Judy Cutler]

It is a different perspective, but the way to embrace the ageing population is to provide opportunities to engage them so that they can show that ageism is not warranted, that all the myths are just that--myths.

Just to talk about it is one thing, but we have to provide opportunities for active living, for lifelong learning, for participation and engagement in communities and society and industry and whatever.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's fair enough. I just sort of paraphrased it before. When we're talking about ageism, it's not just an advertising campaign. It's demonstrating through leadership at all levels of government that we do care about this segment and we're prepared to work by giving it the profile it deserves. It's also making sure there's a conduit to receive feedback to be able to act on some of these things that are important, which, in effect, would show society that we're serious, governments are serious about dealing with not only ageism but all the other issues that come with this ageing population.

[Judy Cutler]

But it's in a positive and constructive way, not just telling everyone to say “There, there, dear” and that type of thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes, for sure.

[Judy Cutler]

They have a lot to contribute. My point is let them contribute.

[William Gleberzon]

And there's the reality, which I guess you're investigating, that they must contribute--and not just in employment, but at so many levels, because they are going to be a sizeable percentage of the population. The baby boomers have always been accustomed to having society dance to their tune, and there is probably no reason to believe that if they're out to pasture, they won't do even more of the same. So it's doing everyone a favour to make sure they have opportunities to become engaged.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's excellent.

In conclusion, I do want to thank everyone for being here. I think you realize that every one of your organizations deserves its own time and its own perspective. As we look at employability, we do realize it crosses many different boundaries. If I didn't hear it once, I heard two or three times that every issue does cross jurisdictional lines, and we need to look at working together with all departments; it doesn't just happen in isolation.

Thank you for being here and participating, and we wish you all the best.

The meeting is adjourned.