Human Resources Committee on Nov. 9th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study of employability in Canada.

I would like to take this time, on behalf of the human resources and skills development committee, to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedules to be here to talk to what we believe is a very important issue in Canada right now, and that's the whole notion of employability and skills shortage, whether it be skilled or unskilled labour. We've been travelling across the country and are on our final swing through western Canada.

Once again, thank you for being here.

In terms of housekeeping, we'll have two rounds of questions of five minutes, followed by another five-minute round of questions. Your opening statements are allotted seven minutes each, and I ask you to keep to that since we have quite a few groups. We will then proceed with questions. I will start with Mr. Kelly.

Mr. Kelly, thank you for being here. You have seven minutes for your opening remarks.

[Dan Kelly, Vice-President, Western Canada, Canadian Federation of Independent Business]

Thank you very much, and welcome to winter in Alberta.

We at the Canadian Federation of Independent Business do a great deal of work on skills shortages. That is going to be the focus of my presentation today, and I've had distributed copies of a slide deck that we're using on this front.

CFIB measures the shortage of labour as a statistic that we've collected for many years. I'm going to be focusing on the concern across western Canada. I have breakdowns by province for each of the four western provinces for much of the data in my presentation.

Right now in Alberta, for example, over three-quarters of our members are reporting a shortage of qualified labour, as we put it. When we ask our members what they mean by “qualified”, often they're talking about things like people who will show up at work on time, people who will work a full week without disappearing, so that word has many meanings.

This concern has been growing very rapidly over the last number of years in all four western provinces. In fact, if you look at the numbers, the lowest level of concern right now in the west is in Manitoba, but still, almost two-thirds of our members are reporting a shortage of qualified labour.

We ask our members--and this is a question we get asked a lot--is this a temporary problem because the economy has been very good in the last number of years, or is this a problem that we're likely to be facing for some time, even when the economy eventually cools down a bit? When we and our members look at the demographics facing Canadian employers, our view is that this problem is going to be here for some time to come. In fact, when we survey our members, 78% figure that it's going to be harder to find workers in the next five years than it is today.

It is hard to imagine that in Alberta right now, and in lots of British Columbia, because the concern is very high. That level of concern about the future is very high across western Canada. In fact, it was highest in Saskatchewan, and I think that has a little bit to do with depopulation in some of the rural communities of Saskatchewan.

When we ask our members--and this is an important question we get asked a lot--whether the problem is a skills shortage or a general labour shortage, our members are telling us it's both. In the past, the issue really was a shortage of skills. We've known that we're short of certain trades, such as welders, or perhaps in the health care professions we're short of nurses or doctors, but it has gone beyond that. Our members across Canada, particularly here in western Canada, are saying that not only are they short of skilled workers, but they're short of workers, period, including those at the entry level. That is, of course, a much more difficult public policy challenge to solve.

When we ask our members how they're coping with the skills and labour shortage, 64% of our members across western Canada say they're hiring underqualified individuals, but that means the employer is undertaking some training to bring them up to speed; 51% say they're improving salaries and benefits, which is obviously a challenge, especially in a province like this, for our members, small and medium-sized firms. To try to possibly compete with larger businesses, particularly in the resource sector, is very difficult, and on the salaries and benefits equation, it's often a huge struggle for small and medium-sized firms.

What's most concerning when we ask our members how they're dealing with the skills and labour shortage is that 46% of our members, almost half in western Canada, say they're ignoring business opportunities. That is a very big concern for us. That means that businesses in this province and across the west are taking a pass on business that they know they could get, simply because they don't have the people to put their products and services to market.

That has long-term implications for the Canadian economy, because if Canadian firms, western Canadian firms, ignore business opportunities today, those may not reappear tomorrow, and that employment that could be created goes elsewhere.

There is, of course, some good news in this, so it's not all doom and gloom. We've asked our members their success rates in hiring from underrepresented groups within society. Some very positive results have come out recently in a special survey we did in western Canada. The data in our slide deck shows you our numbers in 2002 and 2005 in terms of hiring of seniors, aboriginals, new immigrants, and the disabled. In all four of those categories, successful hiring has gone up. One of the biggest increases has been in the category of seniors. Seniors are being looked at by small and medium-sized firms increasingly as an opportunity to solve their labour shortages.

The number of businesses that had been successful in hiring seniors went from 22% to 33%. What was also very heartening was that hiring among the disabled went from 14% across the west to 23% across the west. So obviously the strong economy, the narrowing skills, and the labour shortage that we're facing are helping to pull some of these under-represented groups in society into the workforce, and we think that this is a major societal contribution that small and medium-sized firms are making.

I have just a couple of other slides in there that I won't touch on in any great degree, other than to note that we've been working closely with the B.C. government on a training tax credit. They dedicated $90 million over a three-year period to employee training. This is a very difficult thing for small business. Training tax credits, generally speaking, are only accessible by large firms because they have the resources to apply for the credit and track the training that is associated with it, and our members, generally speaking, train informally, which doesn't often get recognized by government agencies. That is a major challenge when we are designing solutions to this problem, but we are working with the B.C. government on that issue. We'd be pleased, of course, to work with the federal government, perhaps using the EI program as a step to try to address the skill shortages facing our members.

That really just summarizes a few of the key concerns that our members are facing here today. I'd be thrilled to take any questions down the road.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Kelly, and thank you for your presentation.

We'll move to our next group, which is Literacy Alberta. We have Ms. Cairns and Mr. Kennedy.

Ms. Cairns, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Elaine Cairns, Chair, Literacy Alberta]

I offer my apologies to the committee. We were in our provincial literacy conference until Saturday of this week, and we spent until last night writing our speech for this presentation, so we did not get time to put our notes into French. I apologize for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Just to let you know, Ms. Cairns, we'll have it translated and sent to the full committee when it's translated.

[Elaine Cairns]

Imagine. Imagine a Canada where everyone reads. Imagine a Canada where everyone writes. Imagine a Canada where all children have people who read to them every day. Imagine a Canada where language is plain. Imagine a Canada where the workplace is safe. Imagine a Canada where workers have the skills they need to do the job. Imagine a Canada where we can compete in a global economy. Imagine a Canada where a learning culture is fostered and celebrated. This is our dream for Canada. This committee has the power to help us achieve this dream.

My name is Elaine Cairns and I am president of Literacy Alberta. I represent the thousands of Canadians who volunteer in the literacy field and I am here with my colleague Ian Kennedy, who is vice-president of our organization.

Literacy Alberta is the Alberta branch of a national network of coalitions. The work accomplished by us in the province supports the work of literacy here and across the nation. The regional program funding from the National Literacy Secretariat enabled us, among other things, to improve and support literacy programs and services; to refer learners and their families to literacy programs in their communities; to provide resources for and develop capacity within the sector; and to provide professional development for literacy learners, volunteer tutors, and literacy practitioners across this province.

Over the last 18 months, we have spent some of our time developing a provincial literacy strategy: Literacy--For a Life of Learning. We don't have the time here today to go through it, so we have attached it to the speaker's notes you have been given.

As you know, the federal government has made devastating cuts to literacy. We speak for low-literate learners when we speak out in protest against these cuts. For Literacy Alberta, the cut translates to approximately half a million dollars, or half our budget. Without this funding, our ability to provide these services and supports to literacy learners and practitioners is severely compromised. The infrastructure of literacy supports across the country over the last 20 years will be decimated. Momentum will be lost and literacy leaders will be gone.

We find this federal government decision to be short-sighted and flawed. We say that teaching adults to read and write, and to read and write well enough to function fully in today's knowledge-based society, is an investment in the Canadian economy and in our society. And it's a federal responsibility as well as a provincial responsibility. It is, in fact, everyone's responsibility. Now is the time for all sectors--business, voluntary, government, and individuals--to be collaborating to improve the literacy skills of all Canadians. We say literacy is a basic skill through which we make sense of our world and adapt to new circumstances. Being literate helps us to learn, change, and adapt. We must invest in every Canadian's literacy skills, and over 40% of us do not have the skills we need today.

Literacy skills determine how a country competes, especially in an increasingly knowledge-based global economy. A key finding in the recent International Adult Literacy and Skills Survey concluded that countries with higher average literacy scores do better economically over the long term. A lack of such skills undermines a person's confidence and a sense of self-worth. It limits their productivity and ability to reach their full potential. A lack of literacy skills can lead to accidents on the job, an inability to adapt in a job, to use technology efficiently, and to be as productive a worker as possible. The IALSS found that of unemployed Canadians, 53% don't have the minimum literacy skills required to function in everyday life. Lower-skilled adults tend to work fewer weeks, experience more and longer periods of unemployment, and earn lower wages when they're working, said the joint survey conducted by StatsCan, the OECD, and other partners.

In Alberta, 67% of our level one literate people are in the workforce, almost 170,000 people, and that is a statistic from three years ago. To assist these workers to improve their skills, we will need to first improve their literacy skills and then improve their workplace essential skills. Both literacy and workplace essential skills programming were cut in the recent round of expenditure restraints.

Statistics Canada describes the direct link to productivity. A 1% increase in literacy rate would increase productivity by 2.5% and gross domestic product by 1.5%. This rising gross domestic product translates into $18 billion for Canada every year. That $18 billion, or even the tax collected on $18 billion, would make a great payment on the debt. As well, as literacy skills go up, so does the person's health, well-being, and social engagement. If there is a better investment for Canadians to be making right now, we cannot think of one. Can you?

We say that far from cutting investment in literacy, the federal government should be increasing it. We should be encouraging learning in the workplace and in the community. We should be working with workers at all levels to increase their skills, thus increasing our productivity as a nation. As we continue to ignore the fact that increased literacy rates lead to economic growth, and have been proven to do so around the world, as a nation we will continue to fall behind in our ability to lead, innovate, adapt, and change.

We want Canada to be a leader in the global economy. To do this, we must invest more resources, not fewer, into the abilities and productivity of Canadians. It is time for a pan-Canadian literacy strategy that encompasses the broader perspective of literacy. We need to be inclusive of family literacy, adult basic education, workplace literacy, and essential skills training. We need to be inclusive of all groups--francophone, first nations, mainstream, and English as a second language. We ask for your support. Together, we can create a fully literate Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Ms. Cairns.

We'll move to the Retail Council of Canada next. I believe we have Ms. Johnstone and also Ms. Brisebois. Thank you very much.

Can I call you Diane?

[Diane Brisebois, President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada]

Yes. If it's easier. I'm quite pleased. And it is my name, so I won't be offended.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee.

Thank you very much for being here today and receiving our recommendations and our thoughts on employability.

As a business association that represents over 40,000 storefronts across Canada, we constantly canvass our members regarding issues of concern. Employability, recruiting, and retaining good people are obviously on the top of their list, and specifically here in Alberta. This is the reason the Retail Council of Canada, as a national association, chose to present its views to the committee here today in Calgary.

More than most sectors of the economy, retail is people dependent. Labour accounts for more than half of the operating costs of a typical store. Let me add that while often, when we think retail, we think big, we think national chains and large discounters, 90% of the retail communities are represented by small businesses that employ fewer than 10 people in their stores.

The number of stores in Canada increased by more than 15,000 between 2000 and 2004, and employment in this sector grew by 165,000 workers during that time, adding four times as many workers as did the entire manufacturing sector. That's good news, obviously. However, the bad news is that in the very near future, the Canadian labour force will simply not have enough workers to fill the retail jobs available. As Mr. Kelly mentioned, not only is there a shortage of skills, there's a shortage of people and, in our industry as well, a shortage of services.

Let me just add that when I speak of services, I mean we have a lot of retailers now telling us right across the country, but specifically in Alberta and British Columbia, that not only can they not hire people for their stores, they can't find people to build their stores. They can't find the workers who in fact assist them in making sure they can grow their business and add employees to their complement. So it has been a challenge not only within their businesses as retail, but also because of the services that are lacking in the community as they try to grow and prosper.

You've received our submission both in English and in French, so I will not go into the details of all of the different areas.

Let me just add this morning, because I think it's important, that I'm sure as you sit through all of these hearings and these presentations you hear many groups say they need, they need, they need. We thought we would bring a different message this morning. We always need, obviously, but I think it's important to note that the employability initiative cannot work unless all stakeholders are involved. The responsibility is not only on government, but is also on industry and on communities across the country.

Let me give you a couple of examples before I end the presentation. We have had some successful initiatives with the United Way across Canada, specifically in Ontario and Quebec, with a program called the Gateway Cafe. It was funded also by HRSDC to offer sales associate training and job internships to youth at risk. This is an incredibly successful program, which is helping a lot of youth who are disenfranchised come into the workforce and become good workers.

We're also working with our members--HRSDC, the Quebec government, the Ontario government, and soon the British Columbia government--on English as a second language. Our members are working very hard at implementing those programs within their firms to take advantage of new Canadians' entering the workforce.

We're working with Goodwill, with four chapters across the country. Specifically, we are integrating persons with disabilities and social service recipients into the retail industry, not only as employees but as the future employees, meaning there is a lot of investment at this time in training those individuals.

Obviously our recommendation, very quickly, is that the government look at ways to encourage more women, aboriginals, and mature workers to join the workforce. Specifically in regards to mature workers, we talked about the federal rules for private pensions and the Canada Pension Plan, which encourages early retirement and discourages part-time work past the age of 65. Obviously, our submission goes into quite a bit of detail in that area.

We also talk about opportunities to bring disabled Canadians to the workforce. The retail industry has done an enormous amount of work in this area. We have worked in conjunction with the Government of Ontario, for example, and we will be working with other provinces in reducing physical barriers to employment for persons with disabilities.

Mr. Chairman, I will stop my remarks at this point. I'm sure there will be other question, and I'll be pleased to answer them in both English and French.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We're going to move now to the Logistics Institute. We have with us today Ms. Ferguson and Ms. Lucas. You'll have seven minutes. Who's going to speak?

[Karyn Ferguson, Program Director, The Logistics Institute]

Thank you. We both are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

All right, good. You can't have 14 minutes.

[Karyn Ferguson]

We're very pleased to be here today. Thank you very much for giving us this opportunity.

I'm Karyn Ferguson, the program director with the institute.

We'd first like to briefly familiarize you with our history as the Canadian Professional Logistics Institute and review a number of the employability issues that we've been addressing.

Our suggestions today for actions and solutions are based on labour market research that we continuously conduct and our experience with workforce development initiatives that are undertaken with many community stakeholders.

The institute was incorporated in 1990 as a result of the collaborative efforts of 12 industry associations. We represent a cross-sectoral labour market, which means that our practitioners work in various industries. We are supported by over 2,000 logistics professionals who have earned our certification through our training programs, and we are also supported by our partners in professionalism, which include both industry, industry associations, and a number of educational institutions from across Canada.

We believe that the capacity to compete in a global market depends on the skill level of our workforce and the ability to mobilize that workforce.

As a sector council and a standards body, the institute has a core focus on specific workforce development initiatives and development issues within both a national and now global perspective.

Our portfolio of initiatives and activities encompasses many areas, including logistics labour market information studies. We address issues such as compensation, retention, recruitment, training and development, and mobility. We also are producing competency and productivity standards in logistics from entry levels of responsibility straight through to strategic levels of responsibility. We are trying to enhance the career mobility of logistics practitioners through our career mobility frameworks and by building different pathways to certification that address entry-level through to strategic-level practitioners.

We are delivering professional development in training, ranging again from the entry level right through to the strategic level, and we've recently established a Logistics Workforce Development Council, which is directly responsible for supporting research into and the creation of labour market development strategies.

Linda Lucus, a board member with the institute, is going to address some of the key employability issues we've been dealing with.

[Linda Lucas, Director at Large, The Logistics Institute]

Good morning.

The first issue we would like to address with you this morning is effectively recruiting and retaining workers and their skills. Dan McLean, in The Globe and Mail, says, “A good employee is hard to find and even tougher to keep.” The oil industry is one example. Employee turnover has a direct impact on a company's bottom line and can cost as much as 10% of revenue. In the case of logistics, the challenge of attracting and keeping skilled workers is even greater, as this sector must overcome a general lack of awareness and an understanding of the supply chain sector, while competing with other sectors facing equal workforce issues.

We know, however, that supply chain logistics workers are critical links in the Canadian economy, directly impacting Canada's ability to compete in what is in fact a global knowledge economy. Connecting people and job opportunities in a timely fashion is therefore absolutely critical. In the professional logistics community, networking or referral has been recorded at 36% as the most frequent means for locating employment, along with newspaper advertisements at 14% and Internet job boards at 7%. An emerging trend in opportunity for further corporate development may be the use of a company's website to offer current job postings and to attract potential employees.

In order to assist with recruitment, the Logistics Institute is offering post-secondary students free membership and is using a web-based career site to purposely connect these students with the professional logistics community. Through this career site, students can complete a skills inventory and can upload their resumés, thereby directly linking job seekers with job opportunities.

A second issue relates to training and mobility. Relevant training, designed to broaden experience and enhance skills, is a key career development tool that significantly impacts employee retention. According to the Hay Group, when challenging training is offered to new employees within their first two years of employment, these companies increase their chances of keeping these employees over time. Industry focus group participants in the 2006 labour market study suggest that employers should be committed and willing to invest in employee development and training. As well, participants recommended that this relevant training should connect to a clear path for succession and career planning within organizations. Over the last five years, the labour market information study that the Logistics Institute conducts indicates a great deal of mobility within the supply chain logistics sector--that movement between companies was more prevalent in 2006 than in 2005 and that personnel within the P.Log designation were very mobile within their company.

On transferable skills, a unique feature of the supply chain logistics sector is that there are understood key pillars or functions within this industry that are accepted on a national and international level. They are logistics information systems, warehousing, transportation, inventory and materiel control, and purchasing. Skill requirements don't appear to vary significantly in terms of company size, region, or in fact globally, indicating that supply chain logistics employees can move between regions and companies with some degree of ease. With more simplified competency standards that are accessible and applicable for a broader range of employees and employers, it becomes easier for employers to identify the skills that they are in fact seeking.

On competency standards, an overarching competency standard is particularly useful to small and medium organizations that may not have expert human resource personnel and for individuals managing their own career paths.

On school-to-work transition and career pathways in logistics, developing a career pathway in an industry as broad and wide as supply chain logistics is a significant challenge. Career path models are, however, essential to support workforce development. An example of a career pathway in logistics has been developed here in Alberta, providing a provincial snapshot of a broad range of logistics programs. This pathway creates linkages at the secondary level to post-secondary programs and then on to graduate studies and professional accreditation opportunities such as P.Log designations. This career pathway also creates a connection between academic learning and workplace learning or internship opportunities, both of which are critical elements in the development of a skilled logistics worker.

Women in logistics. In June 2006, the board of the Logistics Institute formally supported the creation and implementation of a three-year project that is designed to attract, support, and retain more women in the supply chain logistics sector. The goals of this project are to understand the issues women face in what has been largely a male-dominated field; to assist women to develop a career rather than to simply hold a job; to prepare women for leadership in the industry; to work with employers in order to create awareness of women as an underdeveloped talent pool; and as part of a larger human resources business strategy, to develop programs that will foster a network of professional support and will showcase women at all levels already in the industry, and will eventually bring more women into the P.Log program.

Dealing with skill shortages and foreign credentials. The Conference Board....

Am I getting the time signal, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Could you quickly wrap up, please?

[Linda Lucas]

I will. Thank you. I apologize for taking extra time.

The ability to access learning opportunities at any time, anywhere, supports adult learning and continuous professional development while reducing costs in terms of time and travel. Distance education, when properly designed, can also provide opportunities for Canadians who may have some form of disability but who are able to access information and knowledge through the Internet.

There is much less to do in order to create a skilled workforce in supply chain logistics, but we are pleased that much is being accomplished through the leadership of the Logistics Institute and other partner organizations.

We thank you for this opportunity to make our presentation to you this morning. I'm sorry that we took a little extra time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We'll move to the last group, Ms. MacFarlane and Ms. Sherry, for seven minutes.

[Christine MacFarlane, Director, Sustained Poverty Reduction Initiative]

Thank you.

I'd like to introduce my colleague Leigh Sherry. Both of us are here from the Sustained Poverty Reduction Initiative of the United Way of Calgary and area. This initiative consists of men and women from the business community, as well as experts in economic and social well-being. Our aim is to reduce poverty by promoting progressive policies and heightening public awareness.

This morning you had a presentation from some of our colleagues in the community. VCC is one of the groups we interface with.

I think each of you is very aware of the economic situation in Calgary and might have anticipated that Calgarians would say to you that the way to deal with the employability issues in Canada is to find a natural, non-renewable resource and use it to your advantage. But having the economic wealth that Calgary and Alberta are experiencing right now comes with its downsides, and I think my colleagues on this panel have spoken to some of those issues.

We are aware that just because the economy is doing well doesn't mean that everyone in the economy benefits from it equally. It has been our experience that with increasing economic activity you have increasing social issues. Mr. Martin spoke to some of those this morning.

We know that in Calgary our homeless count has increased by 33% in two years. We have looked at the statistics across Alberta. There is a general trend of increasing homelessness.

This morning you touched on the issue of affordable housing. I don't think we can speak about employability and trying to address it as a national issue unless we think creatively about affordable housing.

I'd like to suggest four recommendations for your consideration, based on the work we have been looking at. These four include the implementation of a working tax credit, the modification of the employment insurance program to include non-standard employees, the implementation of a quality child care system, and increased funding for aboriginal post-secondary educational strategies.

On the first recommendation, the working tax credit, according to recent research most poor people in Canada have jobs, they pay taxes, and they get little assistance from the government, which I think is inconsistent with the common belief in our communities that most poor people are unemployed. The fact is that they are working and paying taxes.

They primarily work in the retail, hospitality, and manufacturing industries. They work in jobs that are precarious in that they pay low wages without benefits or pensions, they're non-unionized, and they provide little chance of advancement or training. They are jobs that are typically filled by women, aboriginal Canadians, visible minorities, and recent immigrants. But they are jobs that are critical to the functioning of other workers and the general functioning of the economy. Any storekeeper, warehouse owner, or small business owner in Calgary can attest to the difficulty they are facing in recruiting and maintaining these employees, as attested to you by some of the people on this panel. The men and women who work in these positions can also share with you the difficulties they face in living in Calgary.

We believe that the federal government should establish a working tax credit, or work with the provinces to implement a wage supplement to assist low-wage workers, similar to what is taking place in Quebec and Saskatchewan.

Our second recommendation is that the employment insurance needs to be revamped to include non-standard employees and all part-time workers. There is a decrease in the number of people eligible for employment insurance, and an increase in the number of Canadians employed in non-standard employment. Employment insurance does not cover 60% of all Canadians. Employment insurance is an important mechanism for maintaining people in the workforce. Without it, we risk the chance of their exiting completely from the workforce. We strongly recommend that you consider revamping the EI policy.

Our third recommendation is the implementation of a quality child care system. We know child care services support the employability of parents, particularly women. Women are now the majority in virtually all university programs. Without adequate child care services, we will have decreased labour force attachment among mothers, and that will continue to contribute to skilled labour shortages. We acknowledge the new choice in child care allowances, and we recommend the development of a publicly funded child care system and the immediate action of the federal government on a commitment to create new child care spaces.

Finally, we recommend that the federal government commit to maintaining and increasing financial contributions for post-secondary education and training for aboriginal people, so that they can receive full support in pursuit of their education.

I would like to thank you for this opportunity to speak to you about these important issues. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Ms. MacFarlane.

We're going to start our first round of questions at five minutes each, beginning with Mr. Regan, please.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Let me thank all of you for coming this morning and providing us with a lot of very valuable and detailed information. You've obviously done a lot of homework. Clearly these are topics you know well, but you've also done some work in preparing your presentations, and I know we all appreciate that.

Let me start by talking about literacy for a moment, and asking you, Ms. Cairns, if your group was consulted by the government before the cuts were announced. Do you know of any other group that was?

[Elaine Cairns]

No, and I don't know of any other group that was consulted. In fact, we were strung along. We had expected our grants to come around April or May, as they normally do for the fiscal year.

We were told there was no call for proposals, that it was delayed. We waited until there was a call for proposals in August and we all submitted proposals. Many literacy practitioners, and not just coalitions, spent numerous hours in the summer writing proposals and submitted them for the September 15 deadline, and shortly after that it was announced that literacy was cut. So there was no consultation at all.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Shortly after the cuts were announced, one of the explanations given was that the government didn't want to support or pay for lobbyists and advocates, and the indication was that regional and national literacy groups would not get funding for that reason.

Since then, as you know, there was a conference call—last Wednesday, as I understand it—and the government retreated from that, saying they're still cutting $17.7 million, but not necessarily from the national and provincial groups. Clearly the government intended to take some of that $17.7 million out of those organizations, although that wouldn't make up even a quarter of it, I suppose. Now, though, it's not clear at all where they're finding it. Do you know anything more about it? What's your expectation of the impact it will have?

[Elaine Cairns]

Unfortunately, it will be probably too little too late, because we're already seeing people leave the field. That's expertise that has been developed over the last twenty years. I've been in the field for fifteen years, and I've seen some really good people leave lately.

Our other problem is that partnerships have been built. If we have to pick those partnerships up a year from now, who knows what they will be.

Coalitions are talking about closing their doors across the country. Literacy Alberta is fortunate because we have had a reserve fund, so we will have an opportunity to try to replace 50% of our budget. But the impact on the field is just...and morale at a grassroots level is very low.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Let me now turn to another question.

I want to ask Mr. Kelly from CFIB and Ms. Brisebois from the Retail Council for their reaction to some of the suggestions they've heard at the table, for instance, about the idea of a working tax credit.

We've heard people talk about a work income supplement. I think it's the same concept. What are your reactions to that and the other suggestions that we've heard?

[Dan Kelly]

My understanding is that the government actually did that in the last budget and put in place some form of tax credit for working Canadians, so I think there has been some progress made there.

We've been big fans of raising the basic personal exemption as a means of putting more dollars back in the pockets of low-income earners. We look at governments across Canada. In Manitoba and Saskatchewan you start paying tax at about $8,000. Here in Alberta, you start paying tax at about $14,000 or $15,000. We think that puts real dollars back in the pockets of low-income earners.

I know the federal government did move, in the last budget, to put in place a new credit of some sort for working Canadians. To me, that seems to be a very practical solution.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Just to clarify, Mr. Kelly, I think the government's was a personal one, but I think what you were talking about was a corporate one. We may just have to clarify that later.

Go ahead. I'll add the time.