Evidence of meeting #39 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was initiative.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Canadian Co-operative Association
The social economy initiative rolled out in Quebec more quickly because they had a network they could more quickly mobilize through the leadership of Le Chantier. Across the rest of the country the groups were not as well organized, so they were not as far along in signing the contract and getting it signed.
Even though it happened faster in Quebec because of the networks that existed, that does not mean there was less need outside of Quebec. One could actually argue that there's a profound need for the networks that are not as mobilized and advanced for the rest of Canada. So there is a great need for capacity-building and financing support to nourish the social economy networks across the country, and we were not consulted on the decisions.
Program Manager, Enterprising Non-Profits Program
We should also clarify that the amount cut from the budget does not recognize the total loss. My understanding is that was the amount Treasury Board had already authorized. There's another $40 million in the original 2004 allocation that I'm not certain was ever brought forward, so that may also be missing out of the $132 million.
I think we have to understand that a lot of that money was in patient capital, and as the Quebec experience shows, that would have been leveraged. So this cut was much larger because we lose the opportunity to leverage the money with other investors, such as credit unions.
We were very close in working with the western diversification office, and I know that our membership was working very closely with FedNor and ACOA to move forward on these. So the consultation from the regional development agencies was very strong.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Were you ever consulted before the cuts, and did the government ask you what the impact would be if they cut that money?
Program Manager, Enterprising Non-Profits Program
We were not specifically consulted or asked, but we obviously had made our position known.
November 21st, 2006 / 12:10 p.m.
Program Manager, Enterprising Non-Profits Program
We were very supportive of the continuation and the rollout of the money, and we were very surprised at the cut because we were not informed of it being discussed.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much.
We'll move to our next questioner, Monsieur Lessard.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Ms. Neamtan, are there social economy groups working on literacy?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Social Economy Working Group
No, that is usually done by volunteer organizations. We do not sell literacy services. Some of our insertion enterprises do offer corporate training for under-educated individuals, but we do not have literacy initiatives as such.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believed that there were literacy groups. Literacy does not only mean teaching people the alphabet; it goes beyond that. There are social economy groups working in the field of social housing and there are grassroots community groups who are responsible for meals on wheels and that sort of things.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Social Economy Working Group
Indeed, there are some initiatives to help under-educated people enter the workforce and to address basic training issues. There is also at least one social economy enterprise selling literacy services in the workplace. Employers pay for these services. We are not involved in this field, but grassroots education groups may not be directly involved either. It is mostly covered by the volunteer sector.
Bloc
President and Chief Executive Officer, Social Economy Working Group
We do have an opinion on that, of course, but I think we are here to discuss other matters.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
I understand. Last week, we heard from several groups who discussed the impact of cutbacks on literacy. I understand the distinction you are making. However, Mr. D'Amours's question remains with respect to cutbacks to social economy partnerships. This answer seems somewhat surprising to us, but either way, we will look into it.
I'd like to get back to Ms. Hunter.
Ms. Hunter, at the beginning of your presentation, you referred to the idea of striking a job creation partnership. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, specifically with respect to the development of new support programs. You mentioned patient capital, tax incentives — which are current programs — and you finished off by saying that there needs to be a job creation partnership developed.
I'd like to know what you meant by that.
Executive Director, Canadian Co-operative Association
The point was made--I just don't recall who made it--that the social economy is essentially an entrepreneurial movement. But a key part of that is job creation, whether it's through a co-operative or another kind of social enterprise. What we know best, of course, are co-operatives--the Canadian Co-operative Association.
An example of that entrepreneurialism is succession planning for small rural businesses. The private owner may be going out of business and want to look at another model where the community owns the organization, or through a worker co-operative the employees own the company that's going out of business in a rural community. So through a partnership between the local municipality--the community could be a key part of the partnership as well--and that organization, the succession planning model is very effective for rural and remote communities.
There are partnerships with the provincial governments as well. But social enterprises are essentially entrepreneurial, so job creation is a very key component of that.
Another recommendation is on tax credits, where the members of an emerging co-operative can invest in a new enterprise and receive tax credits. It's another way that producers in agriculture or a worker co-op can claim some ownership over the enterprise, through having a modest tax investment or credit, as we have in Quebec right now. We have a very robust tax credit program right now to capitalize agricultural and worker co-ops. That is a very effective partnership with the provincial government in Quebec through tax credits. We don't have that outside of Quebec.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Practically speaking, what needs to change with respect to financial support? Earlier on, in speaking with Mr. Savage, we understood that there had been additional financial commitments. You also stated that long-term investments needed to be made. From a policy standpoint, I would imagine that to say so means that you have already identified elements requiring additional financial support. Which ones?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Ms. Hunter, we're out of time, but I'd like a response to that, if you could.
Executive Director, Canadian Co-operative Association
I'll just highlight one particular sector, then, in terms of agriculture and farmer-owned businesses. I think there's a need for some long-term investments in that particular sector. There's increased consolidation and concentration in that industry, and farmers really need to have some impetus to invest in their businesses.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you.
And thank you, Mr. Lessard.
We're going to move to Mr. Martin. Five minutes, sir.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Thank you.
I want to follow up on why Quebec and not the rest of Canada, given that many of us around this table represent regions that could use some of that investment. I think Mr. Watson and Mr. Browncould probably use some of this kind of stimulus in their areas.
To Ms. Neamtan first, I want you to comment briefly on the issue of whether contracts were signed or not. Because we did an access to information request, and it said “All pre-existing contractual obligations will be honoured.” That was the reason they were giving for not going ahead with Ontario and western Canada. Also--and this part of the question as well--they said, “Responsible spending is a cornerstone of accountable government. After reviewing these social economy programs, a determination was made that they did not meet the priorities of the federal government and Canadians.”
Given that, and the comment about this not being a core program, first of all, in regard to the contracts, are you worried in Quebec that you'll be next, in terms of cuts?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Social Economy Working Group
The first thing I would say is that we were at a very advanced stage, as Mr. Savage mentioned, when there was a change in government. There had been a call for proposals, there had been a jury, there had been acceptance, there had been a letter. There were negotiations. There were partners around the table. The Quebec government was involved. So for the patient capital fund, we were very advanced. I can't speak about what that meant legally.
Again, I must say that we were consulted by the minister, and the minister was open. I think the minister understood, perhaps because of the vocabulary, perhaps because he could see within his own region how important social economy was, but it was very open and very supportive.
The rest is something that is beyond my particular vision or understanding of how the dynamics went on. But again, I would say that we were very advanced, our collaboration. There were a lot of partners around the table. It was public knowledge, and the minister supported us. I guess that's a key thing as well.
I don't know if I'm answering your questions.
Are we worried? Obviously we are here because we certainly support that this initiative continue and roll out in the rest of Canada. We feel very strongly that this should be an important initiative of all governments. It's not just a Canadian issue, and it's not just a Quebec issue. It's an international phenomenon that is responding, I think, to the needs of the 21st century. And certainly we hope and we are determined, and we're convinced that we'll be able to convince you.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Ms. Hunter, since FedNor is not here, the minister is on the record in a letter to The Sault Star in Sault Ste. Marie as saying that it was never a northern Ontario program for FedNor, but a FedNor expenditure never implemented.
Why would Quebec have been so far advanced? I think I know some of the answer there. This money was announced, it was supposed to be flowing, yet here agencies like FedNor and the western Canada agency were nowhere close to actually getting this out the door.
What was the problem, and why would it have been so easy to cut?
Executive Director, Canadian Co-operative Association
First of all, on FedNor, it was almost signed. The contract had been written, and the Ontario Co-operative Association and the credit union system in Ontario and the francophone group in Ontario had mobilized and had invested considerable effort to get to the contract stage. So I should make that point. They were far along in Ontario. They hadn't actually signed the contract, but all the details of the delivery and the governance had been worked out.
As I commented earlier, it is the case that the social enterprise movement is more fragmented outside of Quebec, so it does take time to bring all the different groups together, which they had done in Ontario. But in the east and the west, in the prairies particularly, the groups had not yet come together to the point of actually writing the contract. That was the stage they were working on, and they were investing efforts in relationship-building across the different industry sectors with non-profits and for-profits. It does take time to do that relationship-building.
That's actually one component that was so exciting about the social economy, that it gave an opportunity to do that relationship-building across multiple sectors, like charity, non-profits, for-profits. But they were more advanced in Quebec, certainly, because of Le Chantier, I would argue.