Human Resources Committee on Nov. 21st, 2006

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I think, Mr. Chairman, we've run into the first issue and problem, and that is that somebody is developing policy over here, but somebody else over here has the money, and we don't know if there's any synthesis between these two activities at all.

I have other questions about money, but obviously this is not the person to ask. Could we ask one of the people from one of these regional development agencies to come to the table?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Savage suggested some comments.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Yes, that's right. Okay.

So there's the policy question versus the money question, but I want to add one more question to you, because I'm afraid my time's going to run out.

I understand that $39,276,000 has been eliminated from the funds or from the envelope that is allocated for the social economy initiative. Have you felt any of that elimination? Or is the money that you were expecting flowing and therefore we can assume the cutbacks happened to other places in the country?

Go ahead, Mr. Savage.

[Sylvain Savage]

Economic Development Canada has received all funds for the capacity-building initiative. As for the patient capital funding, we were only slightly affected by the cuts. In fact, $22.8 million are available for the patient capital fund. Economic Development Canada is moving ahead.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

And what were you expecting? Whether you have felt the impact of the cutback is what I'm asking you.

[Sylvain Savage]

Not at all. We didn't feel the budget cuts because we were able to go forward, due to other funding. In fact, there was a significant leveraging effect because of the Fonds de solidarité FTQ. As a result, we will be able to establish a $50 million fund.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

It's interesting, Mr. Chairman, that the only witness we have represents the only agency that didn't feel the cutbacks, but somewhere or other $39,276,000 was cut. It would have been helpful to have a witness from one of the agencies that was expecting money that didn't get it or that was seriously cut back.

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

For my clarification, Ms. Mennie, what happened in 2004 under a previous government is still, in effect, the way it's transpiring right now? That is what you're saying, correct?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

In Quebec only....

[Johanne Mennie]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I was just trying to clarify Ms. Brown's comments. So what was rolled out and happening in 2004 is what and how it is happening right now in 2006?

[Johanne Mennie]

Right.

I just want to make a clarification on the policy development issue. The mandate that we received was to develop a policy framework for the future of the social economy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Lessard for seven minutes.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Ms. Mennie, you have provided us with figures for the contribution by Human Resources and Social Development Canada for social development, the patient capital fund, and so on.

Are you able to tell us how these contributions are divided — in other words, what the federal government's contribution is compared to Quebec's? What about the funding generated in Quebec through the social economy, and the Canadian government's contribution compared to the Government of Quebec's and the sector's contribution? Can you tell us something about that?

[Johanne Mennie]

Once again, I will ask my colleague Sylvain to answer those questions, because he's more familiar with the figures. I'm sure he can give you the exact figures about the leveraging effect the Canadian government's contribution might have in Quebec, for example.

[Sylvain Savage]

The exact question is: what is the leveraging effect on our initiatives, or on the GDP, let's say.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

As I was saying to Ms. Mennie, I'd like to know how the participation of contributors breaks down as a percentage, let's say. For example, in Quebec, two levels of government — the Government of Canada and the Government of Quebec — contribute to the social economy.

In addition, some contributions come from the social economy sector itself. For example, two solidarity funds —Fondaction CSN and the Fonds de solidarité FTQ — contribute, as do other funds.

Can you...

[Sylvain Savage]

Yes.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

... provide a sort of pie chart of how those contributions relate to one another and promote the social economy?

[Sylvain Savage]

Yes.

For the capacity-building initiative alone, which I mentioned briefly earlier, over about 18 months we contributed $4.9 million to 34 projects, generating $6.4 million in total investment.

With regard to the patient capital fund, to which we are contributing $22.8 million, the leveraging effect has generated an additional $30 million, including $12 million from the Fonds de solidarité FTQ, $8 million from Fondaction CSN, and $10 from the Government of Quebec. There should also be other contributions from private sector partners down the line. At least, that is what we are projecting.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I see. Thank you.

I'd like to come back to Ms. Neamtan.

First of all, I would like to congratulate you and your entire organization on the Sommet de l'économie sociale et solidaire, which took place last week. I had the opportunity to attend the summit for two or three hours, but my parliamentary assistant was there for the entire two days, and we collected as much information as possible, of course. First of all, it's quite extraordinary to see what the Summit can generate, and how far we have come since the beginning of what we call the social economy. I would like to congratulate you.

I have a few questions about issues that concern me. First, I'll give you an opportunity to answer this question: were you affected by the cuts? You can answer with just a yes or a no, because I will have another question for you right after.

[Nancy Neamtan]

I agree entirely with Mr. Savage, who said that we were not significantly affected by the cuts. However, in factual terms, the patient capital fund was cut by $5.7 million. Nonetheless, this did not prevent us from going ahead with the project, and we are very grateful for it.

Obviously, that funding would have had a leveraging effect. Nonetheless, it remains that the $5.7 million cut from the total investment earmarked for the region did not prevent the fund from being implemented. So as I was saying, we are not complaining. The fact remains, though that there was a cut.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I see.

My other question is on the phenomenon of a social economy society as a whole. We know that the social economy to a significant extent offsets governments' withdrawal from their responsibilities. I know that at one point the relationship with respect to institutional services was quite difficult, particularly when it came to direct services like homecare, health services and even educational services.

Can you tell me something about how the social economy came into being? Where are we at now?

[Nancy Neamtan]

Since you were at the summit last week, you will have had an opportunity to see that the social economy really encompasses people from all sectors, all walks of life and all regions of Quebec, including the unions, the business sector, municipal elected officials, and many people who collectively believe in the importance of the social economy in Quebec's socio-economic development.

There have been a number of debates in recent years, debates that have made some things clearer. The social economy is something that goes beyond political positions and partisanship. None of us believe that the government can fix everything. We all agree on that. So since the government cannot fix everything, be it issues relating to job creation, adapted and flexible services that meet the specific needs of individual communities, we have to do it.

So the strength of the social economy is that assumption of responsibility, that ability to combine volunteer resources, public resources — at least frequently — and market resources from the sale of products and services to meet community needs realistically, and appropriately.

We have engaged in dialogue with representatives of the unions and the private sector, and everyone increasingly agrees that the social economy plays a role in both Quebec's and Canada's socio-economic development. As others have said, in some cases the social economy is best placed to meet certain needs. Public services naturally meet other needs, while the private sector plays yet a different role in our society.

The development of the social economy has made it possible to clarify the debate, so that today there is a consensus in Quebec. So when there are areas of conflict for disagreement, we have forums in which those disagreements can be aired and debated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's all the time we have, Mr. Lessard.

We're going to move to Mr. Martin, for seven minutes, sir.