Evidence of meeting #70 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was children.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
I'd have to look back on this, but I think the number of spaces in the country has actually doubled since 1994.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
It's interesting that one of you mentioned pretty emphatically that the number was zero when asked how many spaces have been created since our government took power. Where exactly do you get the measurement from? How can you actually say so emphatically that zero child care spaces have been created? Can you tell me what the research is behind that?
4:55 p.m.
Chair, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
It's based on the child care spaces initiative. This year a committee was appointed to study the best way to actually create the spaces, but none of that money has actually been invested to create any new spaces.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
We have information showing that even just for three provinces right now, there are 2,500; Ontario committed to creating 15,000. Of course, there was the announcement in Alberta today.
How do you propose that you're going to be...? I imagine you'll be following pretty closely with a strict measurement scheme to determine exactly how many spots have been created. Can you describe that measurement mechanism for me, please?
5 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
It is actually getting pretty tricky to follow all of the accountability around the investments, isn't it? It is a great challenge to us. We have been trying to track the transfers, going back to—
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
But you were pretty emphatic in your last answer.
5 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
Yes, I'll get to that. You asked about the mechanisms; I'll explain the mechanism and tell you how we got to it.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
I'll try to be quick.
We went back to the beginning of the multilateral agreements and we've been tracking the federal transfers and tracking provincial investments. It gets a little fuzzy, although I do want to say that.... So there are federal funds that have been transferred—
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
It sounds as though we're not getting to an answer, and I have some other questions.
5 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada
There are federal funds that have been transferred that have not yet been invested by the provinces.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I have a question for CUPE, actually, because I've only got one minute left.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I'd like to ask CUPE a quick question. What is the percentage of not-for-profit workers who are unionized? Actually, I'll get the second one in too: what percentage of for-profit workers--or maybe they would be called “private” or “non-not-for-profit” workers--are unionized?
5 p.m.
Education Officer, Local 2204, Child Care Workers, Ottawa, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Approximately 12% of the child care sector is unionized across the country. I'm not quite sure how it breaks down in other provinces between for-profit and non-profit.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
So you don't know the number of not-for-profit versus private day care workers who are unionized?
5 p.m.
Education Officer, Local 2204, Child Care Workers, Ottawa, Canadian Union of Public Employees
No.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Ruby Dhalla
Thank you, Mr. Lake.
If we can please wrap it up and keep to three minutes, then we should all be able to get in a quick other round.
I have Mr. Savage, who I'm sure is very anxious to respond.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
I am very happy to debate the Liberal record versus the Conservative record at any point in time, but it would be an unfair argument.
Mr. Chong raises an interesting question when he talks about a national program and whether you can have a national program when one province is excluded. When Mr. Chong talks about this he speaks from principle, and he has exercised his principle in a way that none of the rest of us have had the opportunity to do, so I admire that. But we do need to keep in mind that Quebec is the model for what the rest of us are trying to get to. In essence, the program already exists in Quebec.
When we talk about child care these days, it seems to me the question at the very basic level is, do we believe that as a country, as provinces and territories, and hopefully including our aboriginal people, we should invest directly in creating spaces? Is that the role of government, or should we give money to people so they can take care of their own? In other words, maybe in health care, we should get rid of the health care system and give people money and say, you're on your own; the private sector will build it, and maybe we'll provide a little tax incentive.
That doesn't make any sense to me. Even if it did, I don't think $100 a month would buy an awful lot of child care.
The reason I raise this is that this is a very fundamental question. How do we provide child care? The UN convention from 1948 indicated that education was a right, not a privilege. It didn't specifically say primary school education. We're now getting to the point where we should have discussions about post-secondary education as well, and we are having a discussion about early learning and child care.
My question is for everybody on the panel. Do you think that giving $100 a month, or any specific amount of money, to parents of children under six will actually make spaces more accessible in this country?
Anybody who wants to can answer that.
5 p.m.
Co-Manager, Rural Voices for Child Care
We know that $100 a month does not create child care. And certainly we work in rural, remote, and northern communities all across Canada, where even with this $100 a month going to every child of the appropriate age in the community, they're still losing ground, not gaining ground. We're doing extensive work in Rocky Mountain House, Alberta. We work with the Nisga'a First Nation in B.C. We work in Port-Au-Port, Newfoundland. All those communities are struggling, yet they have this $100 in their hands.
It is a wonderful income support, and certainly from our national think tank we would be the first to say, much like in aboriginal communities and impoverished rural communities, we welcome the $100 a month. It is not a national child care program. It does not create opportunities or options for child care for Canadian families.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Ruby Dhalla
Perhaps we could have the rest of the witnesses answer in 20 seconds, then everyone will get a quick say. Could we go around the table?
5:05 p.m.
Executive Director, National Association of Friendship Centres
It doesn't create child care spaces for aboriginal people. I have two children. I receive $200 a month. That buys diapers and formula.
5:05 p.m.
Education Officer, Local 2204, Child Care Workers, Ottawa, Canadian Union of Public Employees
It's unfortunate that the debate in our country has pitted the needs of working families against the needs of stay-at-home families. It's an unfortunate state that our leaders would allow the needs of children to be pitted against each other, the needs of families to be pitted against each other. What families are saying they need is a national child care program.
We also need to support families who stay at home. I think we are a wealthy nation and can afford to do both.