Human Resources Committee on May 3rd, 2007

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

When he had the accommodations...you were going after the child care advocacy groups that are receiving funding, to ensure they do proper research. I have many reports in front of me that have been done by some of those advocacy associations.

At that particular time you were lambasting some of these great organizations that have done a tremendous amount of work in doing research or in reaching out to stakeholders and providing data and research, but meanwhile the Prime Minister's Office had paid for your accommodations. Is that correct?

[Helen Ward]

One of our supporters phoned and was angry that I was going to be staying at the youth hostel in Ottawa while I was there. She asked them if they would cover my accommodation cost, which they offered to do, and which we declined. That would have been about $200 for my accommodation. That was paid for by donations to Kids First.

Your efforts to discredit our organization by saying we're funded by some right-wing organization of the government are totally ridiculous, completely unfounded, and very insulting.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

To be honest, I don't think you should be insulted at all. No one is trying to discredit you; we were simply trying to clarify issues that had been put forward to us. You're here as a witness, and we're simply asking you questions. There's no reason to get insulted here. You have made a lot of comments in your testimony that were perhaps insulting to many parents across this country who have children in day care spaces.

Today we are here debating a bill to try to determine the best process to achieve the best for our children in this country. I believe, as Ms. Coupal had put it, our children are our future. We may disagree on the process, but at the end of the day we are all here to ensure that we invest in early learning and child care.

No one is trying to discredit your organization; we're simply trying to clarify some facts.

[Helen Ward]

Good.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

This is to all the witnesses.

The Conservatives have put forward $250 million into the provinces to ensure the creation of day care spaces. Is anyone around this table familiar with any initiatives that provinces have done to ensure that the $250 million is going to have an accountability mechanism to ensure there are spaces created?

[Beverley Smith]

Could I speak to that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Go ahead.

[Beverley Smith]

The understanding I have is that when the Liberals came across the country with Mr. Dryden offering those arrangements, they put a condition on the funding: it was to be only for the creation of child care spaces. The Government of Alberta did not want that condition placed on it and wanted to find a way to also fund parents at home, but was told they couldn't have any money unless they went along with just the child care funding. The Government of New Brunswick felt similarly; they said they couldn't afford to walk away from that money, but didn't like the conditions.

I think the way the Conservatives have been trying to handle it is to provide the transfer payments. I'm not an apologist for them and I'm not quite sure what they're planning, but I think this bill has the same problem that the Conservative policy has. It is trying to focus on one style of care, which is not fair, and a lot of parents do not want you to put those conditions on that money.

[Sara Landriault]

I don't like to follow McGuinty too often, but in the Best Start program last year--and it was still under the Conservative government--12,000 or 15,000 new spaces were created, plus the Association of Day Care Operators of Ontario has a few hundred spaces on top of that.

Don't get me wrong; I want spaces created. I would really like to have high quality and affordability and so on, but our definitions are different. Affordable would be everybody's definition, but high quality, to me, would be one I could walk into and spend a week or two with these people, whether it's private, a home day care, a centre-based day care, or a non-profit day care. I have used a couple of day cares myself for my oldest child.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Any spaces that were created by Mr. McGuinty were due to the funding from early learning and child care for the one-year period that was carried over by the Conservative government.

[Sara Landriault]

Yes, but it was still under the Conservative government.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

They carried over the great Liberal plan of early learning and child care.

[Sara Landriault]

Yes, I know; they extended it until March. It just finished in March of this year, didn't it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll have to try to catch Ms. Coupal on the next round.

We're going to go to Mr. Lessard, please.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am quite perturbed by the presentations that are being made to us today. Generally people who come before us provide quite rational reasoning in the context of their expertise, their objective and their position on a situation. They come to share different opinions -- very different at times -- but every time, it is done with structured and respectful reasoning.

But good heavens, it is quite offensive for you to come here and tell us that child care in Quebec is mediocre without a word on how that opinion is arrived at. In Quebec, we do not claim to have the best possible child care, but it is child care that families want, and want to preserve. So all this is showing a great lack of respect for the people of Quebec.

When you provoke, and spew venom, as Ms. Coupal did to support her views, it is not only harmful, it is disrespectful, given the opportunity she has been given to speak on behalf of the people she represents, if indeed she represents anyone at all. When we are told that we are prescribing “psychological thalidomide“, it seems to me that she has a problem understanding the work we do here.

Earlier, I asked my colleague if she knew these organizations. She said no. I do not know them either. We understand that, on occasion, individuals can appear and express their opinion, and so on, like Ms. Ward did earlier. That is no problem as long as it is done in a way that gives people credit for some intelligence.

Still, I would like to check. I have here a publication from the Institute of Marriage and Family Canada, a journal, very well-prepared documents. Researchers, especially economists, are involved, and have as their mission to educate families, to do research, to come up with innovations in family policy, etc. So it is quite disconcerting to hear the views that have been submitted to us today.

Following the lead of our Liberal colleague Ms. Dhalla, I would like to know what your specific situation is, Mr. Quist. Whom do you represent? Does your organization have members? Who are they? Who finances you? Could you tell us, so that we can try to see where you are coming from? I have read your documents, and I have not found anything about that.

[Dave Quist]

Thank you very much.

In several orders there we are funded completely by foundations and independent donors. We're the policy arm of Focus on the Family Canada. We have been in operation for just over one year now. We receive no funding from any level of government, nor have we asked for it. We're quite upfront about that.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Who are your donors? What is Focus on the Family Canada?

For us, it is an abstraction. You come and wag your finger at Quebec. So we would like to know if you are a credible organization with a recognized social base.

I could create a structure with mysterious financing too. Where does your money come from? Is it from religious groups, political groups, universities, financial people? Where does your money come from?

[Dave Quist]

As I indicated, we are funded by independent donors and private foundations. We have no affiliation with any university funding or government funding in any way, shape, or form.

The quotes that I pulled for you, sir, were not actually my personal—

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Where do you get your money? What interests are supporting you?

Opinions are one thing, but your evidence today just does not hold water when it comes to recognized analysis. People have come here opposing the bill and made us think about parts of it because they had a logical approach supported by research.

You are making statements that appear gratuitous to me, and seem to come from special interests. Where do you get your money?

[Dave Quist]

I've answered that question twice now, sir.

Through the chair, let me just say that it's not my opinions I was actually expressing, but rather, quotes from the Montreal Economic Institute, which I did quote directly during my presentation.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Now we are getting somewhere. The Montreal Economic Institute, that's something else. If they come here, will they say the same thing as you? That's a start. Does it give you money?

[Dave Quist]

No, sir. I hold up their document here from October 2006, their economic note.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

It does not give you money. So who does?

[Dave Quist]

They are the ones that indicated—

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Where do you get your money, Mr. Quist? Who supports you? Where do you get your money?